How to Launch an HR Podcast, with Ashley King & Desiree Goldey

Rhona Pierce (00:00.024)
So what do you think that is missing in the current like podcast space for HR and TA?

Desiree Goldey (00:07.102)
I think there's a lot of people talking about the space and how hard it is and how the system's broken. But I don't think there's as as much education of trying to skill level up the playing field. And I also think that two women doing it together in this space is a huge difference to what we see. We have lot of men podcast right now in this space.

To see two women doing it, and I will add in that a black and a white woman doing it together is different in this space.

Ashley King (00:40.992)
I believe that ladies lifting ladies is a love language and we know that these voices need to be there because we've heard the echoes. This is not just a symptom. This is a recurring wound that these people in this industry are having.

Rhona Pierce (00:55.766)
Welcome back to the Workfluencer Podcast, everyone. Today I'm chatting with Desiree Goldie and Ashley King about what it really looks like when two established professionals decide to launch a podcast together, from navigating creative partnerships to building something new while protecting the brands that they've already built. Ashley and Desiree, thanks so much for being here today.

Desiree Goldey (01:17.987)
my gosh, we're so excited. I am I can't say enough.

Ashley King (01:22.206)
We are super pumped.

Rhona Pierce (01:22.606)
Super pro to be here. All right. So let's get into it. How did you two meet?

Desiree Goldey (01:28.216)
I mean it's a great story. I mean, we were working together in talent on a client. and actually a close friend of ours, Glory Prehart actually introduced us and said we get along like gangbusters. And I was like, I don't know, I don't get along with too many people. But but I met Ashley, we worked together and we just I don't know, we clicked, if that makes any sense and

We had like values and like minds, and it just started this journey that we're on right now.

Rhona Pierce (02:00.059)
Amazing. And how did the the idea for talentless come about?

Desiree Goldey (02:04.222)
I'll let yeah, actually handle that one.

Ashley King (02:06.446)
I think the idea was there before the idea came, if that makes sense, in the sense of we were already having these conversations, we were already doing these strategic thought, like root cause analysis, like what the heck is going on? Because that was our job was to go into clients and figure that out. And the more that we started seeing these trends and themes, the more we're like, man, these people are not prepared to do the stuff that needs to be done to actually do this work.

And so we decided like, what is a way that we can create a competency baseline to where people can learn how to do this talent acquisition, this HR stuff in a way that, you know, creates knowledge in the space and can really make all of us no longer transactional players, but strategic players. so for me, I it was so easy to be like, let's just take these conversations and like post them online. Like, what are we doing? Like this would help so many people. so for me, that is how.

Talentless started. And that's kind of how we did the name too, is cause we went into places that had no talent, no centralized recruiting function. They were literally talentless. and so that's why the name kind of became what it was and it stuck.

Rhona Pierce (03:16.459)
Amazing. What reaction are you hoping that you get from the name?

Desiree Goldey (03:21.038)
well, I think we've already had it a couple of times as we record. They're like, it should be called talented or it should be called something else. And I'm like, Nope. You're not getting the point, right? and I think that people kind of understand it in like in their logical mind. They're like, you're explaining to people how to be, you know, we're talented. So you're starting off as talentless and we're getting to talented and

but I I think it's been interesting to see people's reaction to it. And they're like, I'm not talentless. I don't know why I'm on this show and I'm like I'm like, Okay, no, you're not talentless. We're saying that we're educating the people that are talentless and how to be talented talented. And so I think it's been it's been a kind of I don't know, mixed reaction if you want to say anything, but we love it. We love the name.

Ashley King (04:16.094)
We did try many different names too. We really did. Because there's there is a t shirt company somewhere out in the ether with this name. And so I was like, I don't know if we should do it. I mean, we sat on it for months, but every single time I kept coming back to it because I was like, These people, like there's no other way to describe everything that these people are missing. so for me it's great. I do think it's weird whenever people are like, Why are you calling yourself talentless? You're talented. I'm like, first of all, thank you for that beautiful compliment. You can come back anytime. Second of all

that's it's not about me. It's about the function that we support. So yeah, love it for that.

Rhona Pierce (04:52.903)
naming a podcast. That is my gosh. I

Desiree Goldey (04:57.966)
So much work. It's like this all the other stuff kind of came kind of easy, but name, we like went back and forth. We did logos, we did this, we did that. And I was like, my gosh, and we went through so many iterations. But I actually love this where we ended up. So I'm excited.

Rhona Pierce (05:17.208)
I can tell you from experience it has to be a name that you absolutely love. I started with another name and I went through it and it was almost a year and I was like, I don't like this name.

Ashley King (05:28.396)
What was your first name?

Rhona Pierce (05:30.242)
could ask. Yeah, it was throw out the playbook. and i like it was a concept and I crowdsourced it and people like liked it, but I can't say it. And that was a problem.

Desiree Goldey (05:44.448)
I love it so much.

Rhona Pierce (05:46.112)
You know how many times I would have to say, Welcome to Throw out the Pla no. Like let's go let's do this one more time. Let's do this one more time. I was like, over it. And then I changed the concept and everything and then work fluencer just made sense. So yeah, I get it. Naming a podcast is a whole thing.

Ashley King (05:55.416)
Ha ha

Rhona Pierce (06:06.442)
Hey, have you subscribed? Let's fix that. So what do you think that is missing in the current like podcast space for HR and TA?

Desiree Goldey (06:16.812)
Yeah, listen, I think that there's a lot of talk. There's so many HR and recruiting podcasts out there. And I think there's a lot of people talking about the space and how hard it is and how the system's broken. And you know, we can talk about that a million times. but I don't think there's as as much education of trying to skill level up the playing field. And I also think that two women doing it together in this space.

is a huge difference to what we see. We have a lot of men podcast right now in this space, to see two women doing it. And I will add in that a black and a white woman doing it together, it's different in this space. It's just like we bring those different perspectives, we're able to talk about different things and bring such different viewpoints on the things that we're talking about. I think it

definitely makes a difference and makes us a little unique. And I do I do want to say also that I don't discourage anybody from listening to anybody else's HR recruiting podcasts, obviously. There's some really great ones out there. I just think we bring it a little differently.

Ashley King (07:31.77)
I would say that as far as our content goes, what's special is it's very solution oriented. So for the most part, we're diving into things that are inevitables. It's inevitable that you're gonna run into a manager that says, you've given me no one that I like. what are you doing? It's inevitable just a lot of other different things. So like how do we build strategic scaffolding and put it around that? Because what we are learning is this some people who are career coaches, who are whatever

may have a diverse round of experience, but whenever it comes to teaching HR and talent people and all these other stuff, it's it's just not meeting the mark.

And so since her and I are already hired to go and do this as a living, create solutions, find root cause analyses and run the data, find out what's wrong. We were like, you know, hey, not to say that we have authority to come out here and say what HR and talent is, but someone needs to be building this baseline. And we're doing the trench warfare every day. and I I do think that she's right about female podcasting, because specifically HR and talent are very, very high, like over

fifty percent for talent, but definitely over I think seventy-four percent for HR is female. And then we look at who's feeding into the industries and who's shaping the norms and the narratives. And it's none of those people. It's it's so it was something to where we were like, you know, we have a unique spin because we can talk about maternity leave because we've taken it. And we can talk about the solutions that drive that. And there's just things that we can really hit the nail on the head that we feel the space was missing.

And so for me, that's something that I love because to bring solutions, like that's that's worth it.

Rhona Pierce (09:11.806)
Every time. And and it's very needed. And I I you made a point that I was gonna ask about, like, it's mostly female in our industry, right? Why do you think that most of the podcasts and the people on our stages that we see when we go to conferences are men?

Desiree Goldey (09:28.534)
I have so many things to say.

Ashley King (09:32.334)
So like this how we know whatever it's about to get heavy. do you care if I go first? Because I'll forget. Okay. There was a podcast that I was actually watching recently. I think her name's pronounced Iona Mayer or Lana Mayer or something like that. She's the rugby player. but she was talking about how women

Can be parents and can have played like in the WNBA and still will be like, I don't know if I can teach my son's little league baseball. I don't know. I didn't play D1. And it's just like we put so much heaviness on ourselves. We have to have so much credibility. We have to do so much more work. And it was whenever I started looking at the people who were holding the space and holding this narrative, and I was like, wait.

They're a recruiting admin like 13 years ago and they're the one. So it's something to where I was like, you know what? We've got to get out of this societal mental block that we've been put in, this box of like, you need to do 50,000 things, because they will be like, I watched a baseball game one time, thus I can coach. And it's that type of confidence that I really wanted us to channel in a weird way because

there is some essence to like who is doing this every day and who is doing the work. And I think you can tell that in our podcast too. I think you can tell we've been there and we're giving solutions that are really tactical. All right, Desiree, you tell us because

Desiree Goldey (10:55.146)
I well, no, it was so good. I was gonna say the same thing. I think that women hold themselves back from doing some of this stuff because they think they need all of these things to be relevant. Listen, podcasting isn't easy. Like you have to be okay with somebody listening to you, criticizing you, and maybe never listening again because they hated what you said or that you don't want to be followed. And you know, our goal was never to be super famous, right? this podcast.

Our goal was to use this space to educate and inspire and really talk about the real things in talent. But I think if that is your goal and you really want to be a podcaster and you're sitting in, you're like, how do I do this? Why should I do this? I don't have the experience to do this because I'm a woman and we continually do it. I don't people say all the time that women have come so far, I still still think we're in the same place. We're just having we're we're channeling it a little bit better, but we need to do a lot.

better at saying we can do this, we know we're right, we know what we're doing, we're just as good as anybody else. And we can do this confidently. And we know that just because we're, I'm gonna be a little egotistical here and say have been very successful in our own rights and our own jobs in talent. And so therefore we were able to come to this together. And I think part of this is why this partnership works as well is we boost each other up every day.

And we're able to say to, yeah, you're right, girl. Let's get at it. Right. And so and and that makes it easier to do. I think we probably would have done it somewhat to alone as well, but together we're just even better. and together we're able to use that women lifting up women and boosting each other up every day. So yeah, just great space.

Rhona Pierce (12:45.78)
I love that and I I totally agree with you. And I'm gonna take a second here to plug something that I've been doing that I absolutely love. So anyone who any woman, and I'm gonna say this for a reason, that is thinking about starting a podcast and doesn't know if they wanna do it or not, you are invited to come and take over the Workfluencer podcast and interview me for one episode.

I've done two of these episodes. They're going to be released soon. And you can see all the behind the scenes of how I plan and all the production and everything. And I'll give you the audio version of the episode as your first episode for your podcast. I love So that is on the table, and it's only for women because when I posted it on LinkedIn, of course, I got a ton of guys in the DMs who wanted it. I was like, no, this is

Desiree Goldey (13:28.206)
yeah.

Ashley King (13:38.83)
For us.

Rhona Pierce (13:39.564)
Because I know that we like there's so many people who are like, Well, but I don't have the experience or are I have it girl, you can do it. So you can do it.

Desiree Goldey (13:49.07)
Yeah, you can do it.

Ashley King (13:51.106)
What your subset of those episodes should be called, girl, you can do it. Because I'm gonna write that. Yeah, jot that down, girl. but no, you are exactly right. And first of all, I want to just say one thing. I believe that ladies lifting ladies is a love language. And I sometimes, I don't want to say I judge, but I perceive people based on how much their cup is filling into others, like how much are they actually pouring into the women around them and

Walking the talk that they talk. So to hear you say, like, I've already set something up to make sure that I'm reaching back, that I'm lifting, that I'm getting more people in this space, I love that because it's the same reason we came, is because there isn't enough. And we know that these voices need to be there because we've heard the echoes.

in these chambers where it's like all the things every single time over and over and we're like this is not just a symptom, this is a recurring wound that these people in this industry are having. so I hope you know that you pouring back into individuals and giving that back, like that is one of the most beautiful things. because that's at our core. so I love that. Like any way we can lift you up, let us like please tell us that any thank you.

Desiree Goldey (15:07.63)
Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (15:08.748)
Well, if you hear of anyone who's thinking about starting a podcast and isn't sure, send them my way because they can take over the Workfluencer podcast for an episode.

Desiree Goldey (15:16.664)
We will we definitely will. That's awesome.

Ashley King (15:19.138)
It really is. That's so great.

Rhona Pierce (15:21.592)
All right, so getting back to our conversation, like was there any non negotiables that you had when you were planning the show?

Ashley King (15:32.77)
The only one I can think of for me is creative control. And the reason that I say that is because last year around this time, I was on the Dr. Phil show, and I said some of the most intelligent things I think that could ever come out of someone's mouth, and every single thing got cut. And it was really weird. It was a it was something I never considered. I'd never been on a media platform like that, nothing like that. But it was something to where I realized

whoever has media control over these things can spin things any way they want. They can cut logic, they can manipulate it, they can do anything. So to me, not that I would ever do that to another person, but I was like, the only thing I care about in this show is maintaining the integrity of the content.

And like making sure that we are staying true to the mission. And sometimes I feel like whenever you get tied to a brand or maybe even a specific sponsorship, sometimes they want you to censor that. They want you to not be as outspoken. But our whole thing is like we're saying what you can't say on LinkedIn. We're saying what, you know, isn't going to make the cut in your little boardroom meetings. These are the real solutions that we're not saying out loud. so

For me, I would say that the non-negotiable non-negotiable was just making sure that Desiree and I maintained that content management piece and not giving it away for any amount of money just because I've seen what happens when you do and you're working to make just money. and sometimes it takes away from that mission and that essence, which is what built us.

Desiree Goldey (17:09.962)
Yeah, I have to back her up on that one. I I I I will say that we've had opportunities already presented to us and we're not even look truly launched yet. And we've said no. and we've said nope, not gonna do that because you're gonna cut us in half or you're gonna do these other things. And we we've we've said no. And I I think that's important and we're gonna continue to live that dream as long as we're able to say no to things that we just don't believe in.

you know, we have our own kind of like underlying moral quo code to this podcast and and value code to this podcast and we're gonna keep true to that every day, every single day.

Rhona Pierce (17:50.04)
And that's so important to do. And and like I I I totally get it because yes, you can manipulate and like I started when I started, I was editing my own episodes. Now I have a team and all that. But when I started, it's like I could easily take this off and splice it and put this together and make an an entire thing. And it's like, no. And I you've probably seen the trailers that I do, like the teaser stuff. I love them. Thank you.

Ashley King (18:15.79)
Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (18:17.534)
It it's very easy with those sometimes when I'm planning it, because obviously I use AI to like, hey, help me extract the the quotes from this transcript. And if you let AI go loose, they will like it change the whole thing. Like I believe now, I'm a huge reality TV fan. And I always when people used to say like, it was the edit, I was like, come on. And now I I totally get it because you can a hundred percent change what someone said.

by just taking it out of context and using it and it's like it's a huge responsibility as a podcaster to not do that to people because I can imagine how you felt, Ashley, after like, no, I d that's I said so much more than that.

Ashley King (19:02.912)
It was crazy because as I watched the episode, I was like screaming. Like my family was watching it too, and they were screaming. They're like, why wouldn't anyone say this? And I'm like, that's verbatim what I said. Like that came out of my it was in the room. and so and it also made me wonder, you know, how many intelligent people have been on shows, have been on, you know, talk sh hosts, whatever, and have been cut. Like how many

How much of the world is actually okay, but we don't get to see it because they only want to present a certain narrative. So in a weird way it gave me no hope for the future, but a ton of hope for the future, because I was like, there's no way I'm not the only one. They did it too easily. It was so simple for them. so anyway, sorry, please continue.

Rhona Pierce (19:43.754)
No, no, no, no, no. It's it's it's it's a it's a good thing to call out and I'm happy that there are more people in our space. Not that there's anyone in our space that I think is doing that, because I mean as an HR person, we already have like high standards when it comes to that. but it's it's very important to call it out because it is a thing that could happen. Absolutely. what's something that that surprised you during the planning or the recording process?

Desiree Goldey (20:11.486)
Ugh. How bad we were now.

Ashley King (20:14.484)
No that's kind of my answer, but I'll let you go first, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's my

Desiree Goldey (20:20.57)
We've been having these conversations for so long and I actually thought and I've done a million podcasts, podcasts, and so is Ashley. So I thought we were just gonna jump on the mic and be like, you know, like just have these awesome episodes, and that's not what happened. It was rough. you know, and we realized that we needed to plan a little bit better. We needed to put some actual real thought into it and like

And actually sometimes even have a real script to it. And so for me, I think I was really surprised just because I speak all the time. I'm a public speaker. I, you know, I'm always doing these things. So I thought this would be easy. I thought Ashley and I, being, you know, friends that we were and and having all these like-minded things would just jump on and hit it on the running. We were horror.

Ashley King (21:13.164)
We're so horrible. We recorded five episodes that we'll never see the light of Disney. Like, honestly, people are gonna try to hack us now, but no, don't. You'll be con just as confused as we were listening to it. So it's not gonna help you. But she's exactly right, because at one point, and now I'm gonna say this name, and I do not necessarily support or am trying to amplify this. But in my mind, I was like, let's just Joe Rogan this. We're gonna show up, we're gonna take a few shots of whiskey, and we're just gonna talk.

And we're just and and then we were like, and you know what's worse? We left those calls and we're like, this is the most brilliant thing we've ever done. And then we listened to them and we were like, We are absolute trash. Like put us in the garbage. We don't belong. And then we started, so then we like backtrack, right? Because we were just so excited to just like get in a room and press record, even though we were already in the room, there's nothing different.

But then we we we backed up and we were like, okay, how do real people do this? And the more I was reading, the more it was like, you have to prep like you are on a TV show. Like you like the late night shows, like Stephen Colbert, like they at make it sound natural. It is not. It is so, so, so planned. Right. So that was something and for me as a public speaker, because Desiree is right, like I've spoken on many things before. I don't ever think I heard myself as discombobulated in thought.

as I did on these recordings. And so it was just because we would start a sentence and we know where we're headed with it because we've been working together. So we would start like six sentences and never finish them. And I was like, wow, okay, we've got to stop this telekinetic and we've got to write out what our actual sentences are and finish them. So the number one thing that I think did not expect or foresee was actually how much planning

goes into it because I think a lot of people are just like, we can do this in post and fix it up. And you can, but just like how you I'm the one that edits ours and that is bonkers. So I will say that her and I definitely we had to learn the hard way, but we learned it quick. Yeah. And I think that it really actually significantly helped us. Correct that it was trapped.

Rhona Pierce (23:21.698)
That was true.

Ashley King (23:22.402)
Wow. Yes. And and that was key. And to be honest, both of us, I think individually and together, have thanked this person because not gonna lie, that day was not a fun day. Like we well got off the call and was like, this is not fun. but at the end of the day, that person was right. I think delivery was a little mixed and I said that to the person, but I do think that what they were getting at was accurate, and that's kind of what I love about Desiree and I is like

Our number one goal is we really want to do this for the audience that we have, which means that we need to do this as intelligently as possible. We need to sound as cohesive as we can. And so once we got that feedback, it wasn't like a, I mean, don't get me wrong, for like 10 whole minutes, I was like crying in a corner. But then after we picked ourselves up and dusted ourselves off, we were like, okay, this is what we're going to do. And in that moment was actually whenever I realized I had the perfect podcast partner because

Not gonna lie, like I was very much like, you know what? Let's just call this shit. He's right. Like I am nothing. Like, this is spot on. and then Desiree was just kind of like, no, like this isn't a period, this is a comma, this is a course correct, like this is something that we're going to push through and we'll be all the better for it. And that is something that I don't think people get in every partner that they have.

for business. So for me that was something that one, the instance of the feedback was horrible, but the repair, the build up and where we went from there told me everything I needed to know about what her and I can do as business partners, as a podcast host as well. Quick

Rhona Pierce (25:02.456)
Break. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast but don't know where to begin, I've got something for you. I'm letting women in TA, HR, or employer brand take over the Workfluencer podcast for one episode.

Desiree Goldey (25:14.498)
I am so excited to be able to do a podcast takeover. And I'm joining Rona Pierce today as a guest host. Rona is the creator of the Work Fluencer podcast.

Rhona Pierce (25:26.37)
You get a behind-the-scenes look at how I plan and produce everything. I handle all the editing, and you walk away with a fully edited episode, social clips, and the audio to launch your own pod if you want. If that sounds like your kind of test drive, head over to Workfluencerpodcast.com to apply.

That is amazing. And it's amazing one that someone gave you the feedback because a lot of people would just say like, it's great, and let you like release it out to into the world. And trust me, people on the internet will give you feedback. and we that's a whole other episode about people on the internet and their opinions. but the fact that both of you together were like, Okay, this is not a period, this is a comma. We can like

improve from this and you'll see as you do it more and more and more and you've probably already noticed a few episodes in you like it just clicks. Yeah. But it definitely requires a lot of planning. And I think that's a big misconception that people have. It's like, yeah, you just open up and like you don't have any plans or you just start talking. It's like, no, that's not how it works. You can a hundred percent tell when someone's done a podcast and they just literally just started talking.

Desiree Goldey (26:43.254)
Right. It it's it was difficult. and as a person that plans, you would think I would know that 'cause I'm an over planner. and no, that's not what I thought at all. At all, at all. But learn that lesson very, very quickly.

Rhona Pierce (26:58.584)
Are there any podcasters that you are following or like that you admire and are like taking inspiration from for your podcast?

Desiree Goldey (27:11.084)
It's so interesting because we've had this question before and you know, for us, we do think we're in a different kind of I I follow first of all, I'm a murder podcast person. So I I don't know that it's relevant to what we do, but I definitely listen to like crime junkies and serial and like all of those ones. So I think

We definitely took the vibe of some of that and and put it into our podcasts, you know. but I, you know, there's Joel who is recruiting is no joke, and there's, you know, HR Besties, and there's there's just a l HR Besties is really fun and like kind of they riff off each other, and there's there's some really great, great podcasts out there. There's probably too many to name, but there's just some that we definitely said yay to.

And there's definitely we're like, we're not doing that, right? We're like not going to be that podcast, but we can be more like this podcast, or let's take some stylistic things that we like from other podcasters and see if we can incorporate it into talent and into HR. But I will say if you listen to our podcast, our style's kind of our own. It's gonna you know, but I but we definitely listen to what was out there and who was successful.

Right. Anything good that you create, you should listen to the data that comes before you. and so definitely did a lot of that research before we started.

Rhona Pierce (28:42.83)
But it's really good to look at outside of our industry. And I always tell people this, because when people are like creators of any type of of medium, they we tend to look at other people in our industry at how they're doing it. But that's such a narrow thing because the creators, there's so there's millions of us, I would say, out there. so taking inspiration and like learnings from people in other industries that have been wildly successful doesn't mean that because they're talking about something else, you can't be like

wait, look, they're doing this. I want to do this. I can do this. I can bring this in. I think that's what makes our industry or like podcast in different industries richer. Cause then everyone else would be doing the exact same thing. Yeah. So, how are you thinking? I'm I've seen a lot of hype around the launch for your podcast. How are you thinking about the launch and like what does success look like for this first season?

Desiree Goldey (29:27.864)
Absolutely.

Desiree Goldey (29:40.47)
Yeah, this is a tough one for me. because this is my area of like marketing it and launching it. And I, you know, for me it was I wanted to create the hype. you know, there was a point where we're like, we're just gonna start at releasing episodes, but I wanted the build-up to be there. and I really wanted people to be like waiting for it. Not that anybody's truly waiting for it, but I wanted it to have

I wanted it to feel like it's coming with some energy to it. And you know, for me, it's funny when people ask me, like, what does success look like? You know, we we've already had downloads and things like that. I I want this to be that someone comes back to me and says, This helped me. it helped me go forward. I learned so much. I took notes, which we've already heard.

Those kind of things, those kind of feedback for me is more important than the amount of downloads. Now, listen, as a person that is truly ambitious and crazy and competitive, I want this to be wildly successful. If I had my dream, this would take over my job, right? So this would be the goal for me is to be doing this full time, like chad and cheese or somebody, right? That would be the goal for us.

But for right now, I'm just super happy when people come back and say they found value in it. and that that, you know, it resonated with them, or they like the energy, or they like to hear our voices, or they're too waiting for the next one. Like those were all the exciting comments for me. and so we've we have some great guests this season that I think will help do that. And we have some great things going on for after season, and I just I'm just super excited.

for I think the energy we're gonna be able to bring straight off the bat.

Ashley King (31:34.414)
For me, I would say success. So Talentless is in some ways a mission that I've been on since like 2011. and so for me, the way that I evaluate success and and kind of a narrative that I've been pushing for a few years now is kind of that HR has a hand in macro systems and we can impact the wealth gap in America.

So like whenever I think of success, I'm thinking like 30 years down the road of all these episodes that we've put out are tiny kernels of nuggets of how you actually do that. And and that's kind of one of the core tenets of our show. That's that's unbeknownst to others, but to Desiree and I are like how do we start creating shape shifters that can move and do social justice in this realm and use talent as a vessel for that. And so to me, we don't ever

say that like, you know, as bluntly. But to me, that's the whole ballgame. Like I want to see that we've actually made a difference using this role for social justice and integrating that to where because in HR and talent, we are the consumer and the creator. We have to abide by whatever HR rules are set, which in turn we do the micro and it creates the conglomerate of those norms. So to me, it's something where if if

30 years from now, people are like, who was Ashley and Desiree? I just want them to be like, they're the ones who taught me that my job was much bigger than just pushing paper. They're the one who taught me that I do have a hand in the wealth gap. And whenever we do look at data, we do see a difference and a change. And there is accountability here for that. And there is a tether and a straight line connecting us. I think that that's something important. So for me, if I can walk away from any of this and have success, it is people actually saying, okay, I can be.

I can be a change agent here. that that's what I want to see.

Rhona Pierce (33:31.95)
I love that. How are you thinking about like building the audience for the show versus how you would build your audience for yours like your following for yourself, your individual brands?

Desiree Goldey (33:45.622)
Yeah, I mean this is an interesting question to me. I I we are only traveling once this year, but I we think next year there'll be a lot of in real life stuff happening for us. And we believe that is ultra, ultra important for us to be on the road and and see followers and r and and listeners in real life, to meet and greet and and shake hands because online's great, but in real life is where it's really at.

and we'd like to do more speaking engagements and we'd like to be in in the realm that we actually are talking about more. and I, you know, as I think as a marketer of Talentless, you know, building the audience is great from doing the LinkedIn stuff and the Instagram stuff, but how you get real value is when in in real life for me. and really seeing what people want and actually taking feedback because

I think in real life you can get some honest feedback or, you know, some suggestions about what they want to hear next or what they wanna see in season two. And you know, I think that shapes how you form the podcast going forward, right? So I think that's super important. for me. For me, I think it's super important.

Ashley King (34:59.49)
Yeah. I would say I feel like the arena that we're in kind of cookie cuts out for us the niche following that we would have. so I will say we are targeted more towards recruiter and talent. So like if you're a job seeker, some of this might be interesting because you can kind of see under the rug. but like I had my everyday friends listen to this and they're like, I love you.

I have no clue what just happened to me as I was listening to this. I don't know anything about HR. So I was like, listen, it's all right. as long as you found a few like quirky, silly moments. They were like, yeah, like I totally got it, but I don't know what you know an HRIS is, or something like that. So I would say that whenever it comes to our followers and kind of differentiating like our individual brand from talentless, I feel like talentless is straight, like talent and recruiting HR professionals. I feel like our individual followings, I feel

My following had been built up for over like 15 years of recruitment. Half those people are from candidates from like ages ago that were just like, I loved our conversation. Can I connect with you online? I'm like, heck yeah. and so those have just been built over years, if I'm being quite frank. So that's another thing that I actually really like about Desiree and I's following and just kind of who we have around us. It's very organic. A lot of these people we have spoken to, we have made impressions with.

they they know us in another way that just isn't a JPEG. and so for that I have a lot of appreciation. For the ones that don't know us other than a JPEG, those are the ones that I'm excited to meet in real life because we have things like Wreckfest and other conferences and things like that does allow us to meet these individuals. and let me say that I just love it. We love it so much that we actually started a

Kind of like an after hour show with Talentless. It's called Clock Out. And it's specifically for the League of Legends of the talent people that come to these things and are shaping the industry. Like we want to get to know you. so whenever it comes to our following, the people we have in our ether, who's filling up our cups and whose cups we're filling to, I would say majority of those people are either going to be talent HR or previous job seekers that have just come along for the ride and appreciated us every

Desiree Goldey (37:16.15)
Right. And I do want to say that anytime you're in a niche thing in marketing, it's it's the hardest thing, right? it's hard to you maintain, stay relevant, be all of those things. As a person who works in marketing every day, I know that more than most, right? And so those I I think there always is going to be a new spin for us for season one. It was very educational.

if we're season two it may feel a little different. In season three it may feel a little different, but we're not gonna stop, right? even if we stop we always joke we're gonna have four listeners and but we're never gonna stop recording. So

Rhona Pierce (37:52.91)
You know what? I think for the longest of time, I like there was something wrong with my metrics and I couldn't see like it only it said that I only had like five listeners or like five subscribers and then it like magically changed. So clearly there was something wrong with the data. But there was always someone who would like every week, she would be like, my gosh, that was so amazing what you said. And anytime I wanted to stop, I would be like, I have to keep doing this episode because then what is

So and so gonna listen to like literally that I would be like, no, I'm helping someone. This is actually helping someone. And who knows? It could be that she was just saying that to be nice, but for me, that was like, no, I have to keep going and I have to keep going. So and and you you've totally hit the nail on the head with the whole in person. when you meet people in person, that's where you get like the beautiful, beautiful feedback. So did I hear correctly that you ladies will be at Wreckfest this year?

Desiree Goldey (38:52.47)
We are hosting a stage. We are on Unplugged day two, so come out, come out.

Rhona Pierce (38:54.932)
Amazing.

Rhona Pierce (39:01.196)
So yes, everyone go see them and I'll also be there. So we'll get to meet in

Ashley King (39:06.426)
Life.

Desiree Goldey (39:07.374)
Yes. Yeah, we are super excited. Breakfast was the first time we spoke together actually last year. And so we're excited to be back there. One of our favorite yeah, it was. but that was online.

Rhona Pierce (39:08.938)
Yeah.

Ashley King (39:20.972)
We spoke at ATAP.

Okay, okay, okay, okay. We're gonna keep going.

Desiree Goldey (39:28.426)
We will we and I was I was moderating, but it's not the same. Anyway. So

Ashley King (39:33.07)
Please continue.

Desiree Goldey (39:35.502)
So anyway, wreckfast is one of our favorite events. So it is going to be fun and enjoyable. It we like the energy in the room. So we said we definitely are gonna do that one this year and we were just lucky enough to be asked to host. So

Rhona Pierce (39:48.59)
Amazing. Same. breakfast is absolutely my favorite HR conference here, and I'll be talking about what I'll be doing at Wreckfast more later on.

Ashley King (39:59.726)
That seems like cooking up a surprise. I'm pumped for that. Who knows?

Rhona Pierce (40:05.208)
Who knows? so I really love this conversation. But if you've ever listened to Workfluencer, you know that my favorite part of the show is one of my segments. And this one I don't think you've listened to yet because I don't think there's an episode out, but it's called a vibe or cringe. So this is the s part of the show, it's a rapid fire segment.

And I'm gonna throw out some content trends and I want you both to answer at the same time. Is it a total vibe or is it straight up cringe? Okay. No middle ground and no overthinking. Just say it loud and say it fast. And this one is podcast edition. Are you ready? All right. Including listener questions in your episodes before you have listeners.

Desiree Goldey (41:00.054)
Correct.

Ashley King (41:03.246)
There are questions we already know. Okay, continue, continue. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Desiree Goldey (41:04.674)
You have to have that!

Rhona Pierce (41:09.312)
No wait, why would you say it's a vibe?

Ashley King (41:11.832)
Well, so at DEI Labs, we do a lot of research. Like everything that we're doing, we're collecting data. And so, like I had said, a lot of these things are trends. So some of these questions, although they can have different coding and different packages, they're and and different symptoms, they're coming to the same root cause. So to me, it's kind of like it's okay to have some questions, because some of these we know for a fact. But I mean, should they be prefaced with like, this is a person coming and asking us? Like, no, like I don't wanna be the person that's like so many people have asked me today about

my posting and it's like not your mom, maybe like that's it. Your dog. No one else asked you, girl. so I can say cringe, but I could also see vibe for the sake of we do have some internal resource to understand and data points. So that's where I say. I'm a nerd though. Next question. Rapid fire. I really

Rhona Pierce (42:00.974)
Desiree Goldey (42:03.453)
Rhona Pierce (42:05.403)
My babe. AI. All right. AI baby podcasting.

Ashley King (42:13.038)
What? Cringe? I don't even know what that means. So the ton of people, the little tiny baby. Yes. That's hilarious. Okay. Maybe slight vibe, because I wanna be a baby. I really am. I'm the worst.

Desiree Goldey (42:19.052)
That do the podcasting, you give yourself a big

Desiree Goldey (42:29.038)
So cringe to me.

Rhona Pierce (42:32.366)
Don't say this to me because to me it's cringe. No, it's horrible. But I found the tool today that does it. So who yeah, I did not approve of it. So real baby Rona was way cuter than AI baby Rona. So we'll have to see. Maybe this one will turn into a baby.

Ashley King (42:41.278)
You've been a baby Rona?

Ashley King (42:45.474)
Baby.

Ashley King (42:52.226)
Hi.

Ashley King (42:55.95)
Please make me an infant. my god. Could you imagine just a little twelve month old? And I think that the question is Like it's perfect. I would love it.

Rhona Pierce (43:09.324)
All right, next one filming a reaction video to your own podcast episode.

Desiree Goldey (43:16.35)
I don't know. I I'm kinda on the fence with that, but I I'll say cringe a little bit.

Ashley King (43:21.678)
I would say cringe if other people know that's what we're reacting to. I don't know. Some of these are just s so here's the thing. I'm not someone that's ever in marketing. So to me, you have to understand that whenever I would see these advertisements, I'm like, wow, they're really surprised. But now that I've been on the back end and I see how much prep planning all this, I'm like, no one's surprised. All of this was planned. This is no, like everyone here knew it. You just now found out. and so to me, I don't I don't know. I just think

Whenever I didn't know, I would have been like, Yeah, that's a vibe. But now that I know what goes into it and that we're all faking it and just really good actors, I'm kinda like mm cringe because I know what's behind the ki curtain. But I don't know if that's this is supposed to be rapid fire and I've ruined it every single time. I'm not talking on the next one and I'm probably lying. I'm so lying. I know it already. Okay, let's go.

Rhona Pierce (44:13.518)
And this is the last one. Using AI generated voices to promote your human hosted podcast.

Desiree Goldey (44:21.068)
We actually do that and so we can't say we can't say cringe.

Desiree Goldey (44:29.016)
Ha ha ha ha.

Rhona Pierce (44:30.19)
I love it. And this was my goal. I did not know that you guys did that, but I was like, I have to choose something that people are like forced to say like, ooh, bye, because I do it.

Desiree Goldey (44:41.174)
That is us. So we tried it with Ashley speaking and I'm gonna tell you. It was like a it was like a boudoir commercial. So we had to

Rhona Pierce (44:50.943)
yeah! We are a s bar!

Ashley King (44:52.526)
Okay, listen. Did we want to get an audience or not? All right. So what if the voice sounded a little sultry? All right. I mean, our initial intro into talentless was me like, Hi, this is talentless. Like I was trying some ASMR type wait. It was I never should have, no one should have let that mic in my hand. but it had to be our first little episode so we could get our RSS feed up.

So if you wanna go right now in the early days before we delete all evidence of this, you can probably still find it. But come season two and we have our for sure everything in there, that bad boy's popping right out. But that was technically our first download.

Desiree Goldey (45:34.604)
Definitely don't have a problem with AI. I have a problem when and I think it can help create. I I don't have a problem with it. I think it it's sometimes overused and used in the wrong way. and I don't have an issue if it helps like us. Like we we just couldn't agree on the intro and it got us to the finish line really quickly. Right. So great, fine, done. Right. And you move on from that thing. Now, AI babies, I'm not like, no, like it's just not happening.

We're never gonna be a baby. I'm never going live with a

Rhona Pierce (46:07.851)
I think.

Ashley King (46:08.418)
get my real baby and getting her in here to sit.

Rhona Pierce (46:11.788)
Like, I don't know if you can say you're never gonna be a baby. I might turn you into a baby.

Ashley King (46:17.646)
If you have to turn anyone. Actually, yeah, please do Desiree. I was about to say me, but like honestly, could you imagine just a baby Desiree? She'd be like, the marketing numbers are not in place. Like we would mean baby business. You know what? Make this a vibe. I don't know what y'all are talking about. All right. Boss baby moves.

Rhona Pierce (46:39.022)
Right. If you had to add one to the list, something that you've l seen lately that you're so over or that you secretly love, what would it be?

Ashley King (46:47.256)
So I'm actually interested if it's okay to ask you because this is something I'd never heard of, but people keep talking about it. But people buy listens for their podcast, vibe or whatever. I would have said

Rhona Pierce (47:02.422)
cringe. Cringe cringe, cringe, cringe, cringe, cringe. I I I understand people have explained to me why they do it. because yes, if you like you want advertisers and it looks better and like even on for YouTube, because I do video podcasts, it's like, if you buy views, then the more views that your video has, the more other people are inclined to see it.

I don't care about that. I'm not into dopamine. It's not my drug of choice. I want people to

Ashley King (47:36.546)
Save it from the devil lettuce. Anyway, cut that. Continue.

Rhona Pierce (47:40.046)
I want to grow my all of my content organically. It's the reason why I've been able to get brand deals way before. Like people are like, you need to have a hundred thousand followers. And I'm like, really? I got my first brand deal when I had less than a thousand followers because it's a hundred percent organic. so no, I don't cringe a hundred percent to buying listeners, to buying views.

To buy it like anyone who's worked with me, I own a video content agency and people are always like, can we buy some? Absolutely not. We can't buy a thing. This is not how we roll here. So

Desiree Goldey (48:15.244)
that it's really good advice for us as well too, right?

Ashley King (48:18.818)
We'd never heard of that. Right. Like that sounded crazy to us. And so but then she actually looked into it. She's like, This is real. Yeah. So yeah. But I agree. It's what's the point of doing it all if it's all a false front? Like I wanna know, you know, like the real deal. Yeah.

Desiree Goldey (48:35.022)
Real.

Rhona Pierce (48:35.862)
Exactly. Amazing. I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much for being on the show. where can listeners connect with you?

Desiree Goldey (48:43.734)
Yeah, so obviously on both of our LinkedIns, Desiree Goldie and Ashley King, countless podcasts.com, come click subscribe or be a guest, or if we really want to sponsor Talentless.

Ashley King (48:59.022)
Two women in the space. Hello.

Desiree Goldey (49:02.638)
You can definitely sign up to be a sponsor. We are on Instagram at talentless underscore podcast. and I think I got it all. So

Rhona Pierce (49:11.502)
And I'll link all of that in the show notes. Thanks again, ladies, for being on the show.

Desiree Goldey (49:16.152)
You're wonderful. Thank you for having us.

Rhona Pierce (49:18.574)
Thanks so much for listening. If you're enjoying the Workfluencer pod, share it with someone who's changing how we talk about work or who should be. And hey, if this episode gave you ideas or inspiration, leave us a five-star review. Reviews help other listeners find us. And honestly, it makes my day. Workfluencer is produced by Perceptible Studios. Learn more about how we can help you use video to attract, engage, and retain qualified talent at Perceptiblestudios.com.

Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.