REPLAY: Building Building HR's Most Subscribed Newsletter with Hebba Youssef

Hebba Youssef (00:00.108)
Yeah, all the time. All the time. So who I I'm not like scared to piss people off. I think like we are way too sensitive, honestly.

Rhona Pierce (00:11.854)
It's Hebba Youssef, the Chief People Officer at Workweek and the creator of I Hate It Here, one of the most read, reshared, and brutally honest newsletters in HR.

Hebba Youssef (00:22.082)
There are so many people that I think have written in and said they feel seen or they felt really lonely or felt like they couldn't be themselves in HR before they like started reading my content. I don't even know how to like come put that into words, the fact that like people feel like I made them more comfortable. That's it, like done my job.

Rhona Pierce (00:38.892)
In this conversation, she opens up about the creative process behind her newsletter.

Hebba Youssef (00:42.934)
Letter like sometimes I do an entire newsletter of just Buffy the Vampire Slayer gifts because I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Rhona Pierce (00:48.482)
I really enjoyed the Bridgetron era of I hate it here newsletter. What it's really like being both the CPO and a monetized creator inside the same company.

Hebba Youssef (00:58.894)
Again, I have so much privilege because I have a CEO who lets me say what I want to say, who even when we disagree on stuff, I'm like, can I talk about us disagreeing on it? He's like, go for it.

Rhona Pierce (01:09.282)
Being outspoken is always worth it, even when it's uncomfortable.

Hebba Youssef (01:13.004)
This job is hard. Like I am a CPO by day. I leave this call. I go to business calls. I have a standing weekly meeting with the founders of the company I work. I'm dealing with managers. We're at a rapid growth, fast-paced startup. How do I handle all that? A lot of the times I'm doing this work and so like the the newsletter just feels like a labor of love and like therapy most.

Rhona Pierce (01:30.914)
weeks and just when you think it couldn't get more honest, I hit her with plead the fit. Eric. Three spicy questions and one confession that had us both laughing or maybe just cackling a little. I always rarely do it. This is Workfluencer. Let's get into it. I'm so excited to have you today on the pod. Thank you so much for joining.

Hebba Youssef (01:36.088)
Cara...

Hebba Youssef (01:43.15)
Always give people that advice and I

Hebba Youssef (01:52.895)
I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Rhona Pierce (01:56.098)
So, we're gonna talk about all things newsletter and memes today. You've got really one of the most subscribed to newsletters in HR and probably the most shared. What's something about I hate it here that people don't realize until they've been reading it for a while?

Hebba Youssef (02:14.918)
Mm, that I will sneak in so many pop culture references. It's honestly, people are always like, it feels like you're talking to me, like when I read the newsletter. And every time I'm like, I'm actually just talking to myself. Like most of the time when I'm writing the newsletter, I like mumble. I'm like asking myself questions, and then I'm like giggling. Like I make myself laugh probably more than a normal person should. Because I'm like laughing myself as I'm writing it. And so

I think the thing that people don't realize a lot of times is I'm writing very much also for like the moment I'm in and trying to even give myself advice through the writing. It's like very therapeutic.

Rhona Pierce (02:54.84)
I love it. And yeah, as someone who knows you, I totally get that feel. Like reading your newsletter is the same as like talking to you. It really is.

Hebba Youssef (03:03.74)
So so so sorry.

Rhona Pierce (03:06.38)
So how do you choose like what to write about each week?

Hebba Youssef (03:10.162)
this is such a good question. In the beginning, I was like, I'm gonna write about whatever I want this week. Like every week I'm gonna like wake up on Sundays because I send on Mondays. So usually I start writing on Sundays, which is means I've been working like six days a week for the last three years. Someday I will not write on a Sunday, but until then, I used to wake up on Sundays and just like pick a random thought I had. And then as I started getting more into content creation, I was like, this chaos. I love chaos to be clear. I've done four startups, it's like my bread and butter.

But it's really stressful when you're trying to be creative in the chaos sometimes. And I was like, I can't do this. I have to like have thematic writing. So then I started mapping out every quarter with a theme. And then when I would have a theme that I knew I was sending 12 newsletters on said theme, how could I actually break it down week over week and build upon each other? So it feels like you're reading a continuous story and you're not just reading like random things I decided to write this week.

So now every quarter before a quarter starts, like think of a theme. Like my Q1 in 2025 was inspired by Lauren Hill and the miseducation of Lauren Hill. And I thought there's a miseducation problem in HR. And so I made the whole entire quarter about the role of HR, what people get wrong, what are popular profile types for HR people, what to do when something really isn't your job, like all these things that really impact HR's role. And like this next quarter, inspired by Cindy Lopper, Girls Just Wanna Have Fun.

I'm writing about employees just want blank. So I'm always thinking of like an overarching theme and then trying to connect the stories I'm writing about week to week to that theme.

Rhona Pierce (04:44.398)
If you've made it this far into the episode and you're not subscribed yet, now's a good time. I love it. and and you get really real in your newsletter. Like what's your filter for deciding like, okay, this is going in versus this one stays in the group shop?

Hebba Youssef (05:02.174)
Mm, that's so funny. Sometimes my CEO will text me and be like, is this about me? Did you write this about me? And every time I'm like, it is not about you, sir. Like it rarely is about him. And when it is about him, he knows. Like I tell him, like, I might talk about this thing in the newsletter. He's like, cool, I don't care. What goes in the newsletter? Like, nothing about work week employees like my current employer would ever end up in the newsletter. That's just like not my vibe. It's inappropriate. It's not confidential. Like I also have to, I'm a chief people officer, so I have to like maintain

a certain level of discretion when I'm also writing. And so like that's one filter where I'm like, I never put anything that's at all confidential to my current company in the newsletter. That's just a non-negotiable for me. It's also like no one's business. The second part is like, I feel like I can talk about most things though, which is really nice. And then the filter is like, is this going to do more harm or good out in the world? Is something I'm constantly thinking about. And most of the time I land on, I think it'll do good for people to hear this different perspective.

And then I try to go through there. But when it comes to like specific people, that definitely stays in the group chat.

Rhona Pierce (06:05.568)
Yeah, I mean, that's such a good thing because I think it can happen to all of us in the space. Like we get so much content. If you work in TA or in HR, content is ever like your everyday could be content, but you have to have like that filter of like you're still a HR professional, right? You can't like there's still ethics and confidentiality and you still need the trust of the people in your organization. So if you're always blabbing about stuff online or in your newsletter.

It's you're not gonna be a very successful chief people officer.

Hebba Youssef (06:39.95)
Yeah. Even then when I meet like other content creators out in the world, if they like inspire a post, I usually try to tell them, hey, you inspired this. I'm gonna tag you in it, or I'm gonna mention you. Like sometimes I'll be like, my friend does X, Y, and Z, and I'll stick them in the newsletter. And then I think the second piece of it is like, yeah, we have to have discretion, but I feel like that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to like be ourselves too. And that's where I think a lot of people are like, ooh, HR can't talk about politics. Ooh, HR can't say X, Y, and Z. And I really want to be here to be like,

We can talk about those things if we do them in a way with like respect and reason most of the time. Like I'm not out here saying outrageous things. I'm just kind of saying the things that need to be said that a lot of people are afraid to say or can't say.

Rhona Pierce (07:21.996)
Yes, yes, a hundred percent. That it's it's so important because it's true. Like and I've seen the evolution of content like HR content creators. One of the reasons why I started this podcast, right? But I've seen it. There there's like back let's say six, seven years ago, everyone was like posting the like vanilla, this is me, I'm the HR lady. And now it's like, no, we we don't this is this is not real. Like we can all see through it. So that's why the

the creators like you and so many others in our space are like really making an impact and shining through because you're saying what needs to be said. You're still being respectful, but you're saying what needs to be said, like putting the human back in HR to be that cliche person.

Hebba Youssef (08:07.084)
Yeah, I really don't like when people are like, we shouldn't fight with each other on LinkedIn. And I'm like, honestly, we kind of should fight with each other on LinkedIn. It doesn't mean we have to disrespectfully fight. Like, I'm never gonna come for you based on your identity or what you look like. I'm gonna come for you on the idea. And I'm gonna say, hey, thank you so much for sharing. I actually disagree. I literally told someone the other day, I find your argument to be reductive and here's why. And I just like said it. And I think the other weird part about being a content creator in this space is

Is like I hate the people that come in and are like, we should be positive. We don't have to fight with each other. And it's like, hey, real change, real change does not happen without conflict. And that means like we are going to disagree. There are few things that all of us are gonna a hundred percent agree on. And I actually think we've done a lot of harm to our industry and like ourselves by not having these conversations, by not saying, Hey, I disagree, or hey, maybe re-examine that take because it's rooted in privilege.

Women and people of color or underrepresented groups or neurodiverse people or those with disabilities, they don't get some of the luxuries that a lot of other people in the world do. And sometimes we give more credit and credence to those voices than other voices. And I think that's what keeps me going every day in content creation too.

Rhona Pierce (09:22.144)
Yeah, that that that is so, so good. and it's so needed. It's it's what we need. A lot of the it's funny, I'm thinking back, some of the guests that I've had on this podcast have been we've started our relationship by disagreeing online, but once you do it respectfully, yeah, I just had Mike Pedito. I think our very first interaction was

him disagreeing with me because I I said a very bold thing about like most of the HR and TA creators out there are writing self serving advice and it's not to help job seekers. And I remember him and a bunch of other people were like, that's not true, blah, blah. But then when we talked it out, now they're all my friends. So it's it's it's very interesting.

Hebba Youssef (10:05.742)
There's like we should disagree. Like disagreement is good. Conflict is good. It's healthy. What's not good is dismissing people's opinions, is trying to cut them down by attacking things out of their control, the way they look, the beliefs they like. I'm not about that. But I'm about if your idea and I, if I you have an idea and I don't agree with it, I'm gonna tell you why I don't agree with it. And I'm at the same time, I'm also gonna be receptive to me hearing I'm wrong. I love when people come in my comments, they're like, I think you're wrong, and here's why.

And I'm like, ooh, tell me more. Help me understand. Show me my blind spots because I don't know everything. You don't know everything. So like naturally you're gonna say something that someone disagrees with.

Rhona Pierce (10:45.1)
Yeah. So great that that we're in this era of hell Yeah, of content creation this way in HR and I know it translates back to how we are inside of our organizations as well. Because I mean if you're real online, you're definitely real in real life.

Hebba Youssef (11:03.622)
My poor the employees at work week like, We know she can't lie. We know, like we just we can't look at her. She we know like she's gonna tell it like it is if she can. There are certain lines you can never cross, right? Again, to the confidentiality, we've all worked in HR, DA, like we know there are certain lines we can't cross. Within reason though, I'm gonna shoot you straight. I can't. I'm a terrible liar. My mother knows it, my family knows it, my best friends know it, my partner like it it's not for me.

Rhona Pierce (11:31.0)
Not for you. All right. So going back a little to the newsletter, when you started it, did you ever think it was gonna get this big?

Hebba Youssef (11:38.722)
Now.

Hebba Youssef (11:42.984)
No. In fact, I think I said when they asked me to write the newsletter, I think my exact words were, who cares what I think? And they were like, we think a lot of people would. No, I didn't. I just honestly, like a lot of the times, Rona, this is so cheesy. I'm just like writing from the heart.

I'm like, this job is hard. Like I am a CPO by day. I leave this call. I go to business calls. I have a standing weekly meeting with the founders of the company I work with. Like I'm dealing with managers. We're at a rapid growth, like fast paced startup. How do I handle all that? Like a lot of the times I'm doing this work. And so like the the newsletter just feels like a labor of love and like therapy most weeks. And the fact that it resonates with so many people, I'm telling you when like people reply or send me DMs, I always reply with something very similar, like from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.

'Cause like that's what keeps me going is people saying like this content is actively helping me. Somebody was like, I feel like you're my ghost manager. Like every week it's like a one on one with you. And I I was like, I feel so much honor and like so much gratitude for the fact that people even care what I think.

Rhona Pierce (12:49.486)
It's amazing. Do you ever feel pressure to like keep topping yourself as it grows, or are you able to just like stay in the vibe?

Hebba Youssef (12:56.85)
Mm, that's so good. I don't keep topping myself. Like I'm always like, how can I talk about this new thing? For at the very beginning, I was like, Holy shit, am I gonna run out of topics? Like I truly was like, Am I gonna run it? And then I was like, mm, no, because every day in HR is a new fresh hell. And I have something to write about. So I do feel some pressure sometimes to like continue to level up and deliver really good content. I never want someone to walk away from a newsletter and be like, ugh, that just like missed the mark for me.

So I feel pressure in that regard where I'm like, I want to make sure there's always a takeaway so that if you read it, it's time well spent. You're not wasting time by skimming chat GPT churned out content.

Rhona Pierce (13:39.488)
Yes. So so important and such a great way to stand out now. Like literally the bar keeps getting lower and lower as AI keeps getting smarter and smarter because people are just like using it. But but let's talk a little about AI because it it does exist. How do you use it in your creative process?

Hebba Youssef (14:00.38)
my God, I use it to at the very beginning. I think I told you this. I used to argue with AI every day. Like every day I'd be like, I'm gonna ask it a question. Like, how would HR do this? And then I start arguing with it. And all of my friends were like, You are training the AI. Like they were like, this is cute that you think you're arguing with something. You are training it. And I was like, huh. So now when I do use it, I'll I'll ask it a question, like, how would I solve this? What would HR do for that? And I look at what it says back to me.

And then I like filter that through my actual lived experience. I'm like, I would never suggest that, or that will never work. And here's why. And so from the creative process, I feel like it really gets me thinking about very unique ideas and experiences that not the average person is having. And that's what I think also makes the content even more relatable. Cause people are like, she's not just out of the box suggesting do a weekly stand up with your C suite.

She's like actually talking about how do I show up at that stand up, give them the right things to say, and then get the idea across the line. So I think like it's it's always a part of my creative process, mostly at the very beginning when I'm ideating and trying to understand like what's the common belief about something versus what's my belief and where do I stand.

Rhona Pierce (15:14.894)
How that ideation process look like? All right, you've got the theme for the quarter. You've argued with Chat GPT and and got your your your angle and your POV. What happens next?

Hebba Youssef (15:30.508)
I draft in a Google Doc and usually I draft sections out first. Like it's always a headline and then all my sections because that will guide my like thinking for what I'm gonna actually write. I structure it in that way. And then this is really funny. Before I write a single word, I actually pick all my gifts. I pick every gift to go into every section. And then once I've picked the gif, I'm like, now it's time to write. And I usually write. Rarely do I end up moving sections around. Sometimes I end up cutting sections.

But I almost always like take a topic, break it into what my sections are going to be. I always follow a similar, like, what's the problem? Why am I talking about this? How do you solve it? What does HR need to know? Sometimes I change it as into like, why is this the problem? Like sometimes I dedicate entire sense to just like a problem in HR and like why we experience it. And then I just try to break it down through the body into like really tactical, tangible next steps. Cause like you could spiral for hours, like,

Performance management can spawn like 80 topics. So then I'm like, it's performance management. I'm specifically talking about feedback given by managers. What is the most important things people need to know about feedback given by managers? Well, managers aren't good at it. It's usually flawed and no one knows how to deliver it. There's my body. Like I I this is like what I'm talking about out loud is I do this like every week with myself. I'll like sit for like 10 minutes and just talk to myself through a topic and then I'll start writing.

Rhona Pierce (16:55.308)
That's so amazing. It's so interesting that you choose your gift first because I like I love I'm like you are literally the queen of the memes and your newsletter. And I think a lot of us also I use memes in my newsletter as well, but I always use them at the end. And probably that's why it's so hard because now I have to find something. So talk me through that process. Like how do you come up with

The ones like how long does it take you to choose like, okay, this is the meme, this is the gift that's gonna go?

Hebba Youssef (17:27.394)
The gifts usually sometimes it's just a moment from pop culture. So I guess you should know this about me. I'm like a pop culture fanatic. I live and breathe movies, television, music, books, which I think there's probably like one more angle to pop culture. But I like love 80s movies. I love nineties rom coms. I love 2000, early 2000s movies. Like I have this like deep repository in my brain to like pull a random image from a show out. And then I just go into Google and Google that show and that scene and ask for the gift.

And then I save it and I put in the newsletter. Sometimes I theme the gifts. I think people really like that too. Like sometimes I do an entire newsletter of just Buffy the Vampire Slayer gifts because I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Like so it's all really just like what I like. I'm thinking less often. This is a s really sad, and I care about all of you who are listening and reading. I actually think less often about the person who's receiving the gift and more of my preference for the gift itself.

Rhona Pierce (18:23.443)
Huh, interesting, interesting.

Hebba Youssef (18:25.688)
These are my interests. Sorry.

Rhona Pierce (18:27.404)
I really enjoyed the the Bridgetron era of I hate it here newsletter. It was like this is Hiba is living and we are all along for the right and I love it.

Hebba Youssef (18:40.046)
I was lady whistle downing myself every day. I was having such a good time. I love Bridger 10, I love Shonda Rhimes. Like it's very much everything at the center of the brand or like things that I genuinely content I'm actually consuming. Like this newsletter on Friday had a meme from White Lotus. I've been obsessed with White Lotus. So I'll just like go find them. I make all my memes in Figma too, which is just a nerdy thing that we started at Love Figma. It's it for a while. It was really hard for me to figure out how to use, but now I know.

but I make all my memes in there and then I'll play with like different captions and I'll do multiple options and now I share the multiple memes I make in safe space so people can see my creative process isn't I just make one meme. Usually I make three to four and then I pick the one that I think will perform the best and like make people laugh the hardest.

Rhona Pierce (19:24.576)
Yeah, and that's that's totally 'cause I'm a safe spacer. So that's totally one of the posts that I look forward to and it's always really fun to see all the options and then which one ended up in the newsletter or i on LinkedIn. It's very fun.

Hebba Youssef (19:39.98)
It's a good time. I'm just like we the thing I wish people thought more about work because we're like in a really weird time with like the job market layoffs are the highest they've ever been. I just think we've been going through it the last few years. I have so much empathy for everyone struggling through these times. But the one thing too that I really wish is that we just had more fun at work. The world is like so sad right now for a lot of reasons.

And I'm like, if I can deliver joy in your inbox and it's not regurgitated Chat GPT content and it's like an original angle of something you deeply relate to and it makes you smile, I have won the game for the day. That's it.

Rhona Pierce (20:16.172)
When you're creating these these memes and these gifts, have you ever posted one that and thought like, Okay, this might piss someone off, but it's totally worth

Hebba Youssef (20:25.876)
It. Yeah, all the time. All the time. So who I'm not like scared to piss people off. I think like we are way too sensitive, honestly. Like we should we should be challenging each other. We should be pushing each other again back to that respect piece, as long as we're doing it respectfully. Who cares? always I'm gonna make a meme that someone's gonna be like, HR's not your friend. HR is actually the evil people in the organization. And I'm always like, I'm actually not that evil, like, you should get to know.

Rhona Pierce (20:55.871)
Yeah.

Hebba Youssef (20:58.306)
trying to be like I'm trying to be a good person. Like I'm sure there are people and employees I have pissed off along the way, but like I it's not my intention. I'm not malicious about it. It's like sometimes the business needs something that you can't provide and I have to make a decision. And we all by the way like no business leader is your friend. Engineering's not your friend accounting's not your friend legal is not your friend. No one is your friend at work. We are all beholdened to the business making money. So

Every now and then I'll post a meme and someone's like, Well, HR's the evil one, actually, like they're never mature. And I'm like, All right, get out of here. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (21:33.934)
Exactly. Like so you're the CPO and you're a creator at Work Week, right? And Work Week is a media company that literally exists like to help creators monetize and for creators, right? So what's it like living on both sides of the business?

Hebba Youssef (21:49.902)
Horrendous. Just kidding. It's the joy of my life and the bane of my existence because I get to play the role. Then I also get to like help the company then enable that role too. So I think it's it's always really fun. Honestly, there are challenging moments where I really have to say, like, hey, I like need to put my operator hat on. So we always like call everyone at the company like operator or creator. And operators like anyone operationalizing the business, the creators are the creators.

And so sometimes I even say when I'm like talking to my CEO, I'm like, hey, I have to put creator hat on. Like, can I talk to you as creator? Versus like when I go to him with like a very real most of the time I'm going to him with very real operator things. It's rarely I go directly to my CEO for anything as a creator because I have like a team that supports me. Yeah. But we always joke like there's creator Hebba and operator Hebba. And it is tough like to say that I don't have bias when like you're doing the job.

But I'm always really careful in executive meetings when we're talking about executive things and decisions. I'm never there showing up as creator me. Like I truly try to put up a wall and think as an operator in this business, as the CPO in this role, what how do I show up to this call? And then the feedback I give is directly related to that. When they do, when we're on an executive call and they need like a creator opinion, they'll say, Okay, pause, can we get it like creator hippie here for a second?

And I try to like switch in and switch out. And like the context shifting is hard, but I feel like over the last three years I've done a really good job of like putting up that wall and being like, I'm also here for in a business sense to like solve a business problem. Is it perfect? I don't know. I don't think it'll ever be perfect, honestly. It's a flawed model, but we don't do it anymore. That's why.

Rhona Pierce (23:31.566)
Yeah, but it's it's so good that you're able to do it because yeah, it's important. You you like in those meetings they want CPO.

Hebba Youssef (23:42.834)
I'm not there to advocate for myself and my wants and needs. Like, first of all, that's selfish. Yeah. Me to show up and be like, well, actually, as a creator, wouldn't it be great if we did this? I'm like, no, I'm here as our CPO. How are we staffing this? What is the impact? What's the comms plan? What's the change matrix? Like, that's where I'm trying to like really be in that mode. And then when I can iterate and be creative and fully show up as a creator HIVA, those are different meetings that I'm allowed to do that in.

Rhona Pierce (24:07.822)
Amazing. So has being a creator like changed how you lead as a CPO or like how others in the organization relate to you?

Hebba Youssef (24:16.82)
That's such an interesting question. And when we were at Transform, a lot of people came up to me and were like, I feel like I have a parasocial relationship with you, which I just learned that word like three months ago. So was like, okay. Sometimes I think for the employees, because they read the newsletter, like a lot of them do read the newsletter, they actually get to know me better. Which I think is interesting from the component of trust. It's like if they don't get FaceTime and visibility with me every day.

But open up that newsletter and hear how I'm thinking about something. Does that potentially make our relationship stronger? Because they trust me. They see how I'm thinking about things. I'm it's very like vulnerable. It's on display. I talk about like my grief, my heartache, how I navigate things, the struggles of being HR, like how thankless this job is. So I do feel like to a certain extent, it's enabled the employees to like get to know me better and honestly trust that I'm trying to show up.

How I show up in the newsletter is how I show up at work. There's and how I show up in person. I really don't feel like there's a difference. You meet me on the internet, you meet me in person, I'm almost always the same person.

Rhona Pierce (25:23.212)
Yeah, yeah, you really are.

Hebba Youssef (25:25.494)
It's just like, what am I what am I gonna lie about? Like I was like listen, I have such low energy for that. I'm like, I life is too precious and like too rare for you to not show up every day the way you want to show up. And I feel really privileged that I get to do that at work week. That I get to be like my chaos queen on display. Like sometimes I'll be chaotic in a slack and be like, chaos Or I'll like slack a link and be like, Look at this crazy HR shit And I get to like be myself. And

Rhona Pierce (25:50.766)
Yeah.

Hebba Youssef (25:54.506)
In an environment a lot of times where HR is not allowed to be themselves. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (25:58.35)
that that is so, so good. I'm so happy that you get to have that environment. And and that, yeah, like people always when I speak to people about personal branding and just creating content, they're always afraid of what's gonna happen internally. And yes, there's definitely people who've had bad experiences. I myself have had bad experiences where others in the organization aren't that happy that.

My content gets more traction than theirs or or things like that. But most of the the results or the consequences of creating content have always been building trust with the people that you work with because they get to see a side of you that they maybe don't see at work. Like you're making decisions, you're doing this, but when they understand you, because they're like they watch my videos or things like that, then they they're like.

wait, she's actually a human. like people would ask me. I remember one time I I was delivering some bad news to the team and they're like, they forced you to say this, right?

Hebba Youssef (27:08.59)
Yeah, actually.

Rhona Pierce (27:10.572)
I was like, is this a blink twice situation? It's like I can't say yes, but I was like But it's cause they knew everything I stood for for seeing it online that they absolutely knew that I was a hundred per like literally I memorized what I was gonna say 'cause I w that was so against what I would do. It wasn't bad, it wasn't illegal, it wasn't immoral, it's just not what I would do. So when I said it, people were like, they force you to say that right.

Hebba Youssef (27:37.262)
So I've also gotten that too.

Rhona Pierce (27:41.026)
See, it helps. It helps. so you've you've really built this voice that's trusted and like honest. And like you said, people see you and they're like, we feel like we know you and stuff like that. Like, what's been the hardest part of main maintaining that tone as your audience grows?

Hebba Youssef (28:01.182)
I want so deeply to give everyone one on one attention and I feel really bad that I can't. I think like that's been the hardest part because some people will write me really thoughtful messages and I'll be like, My LinkedIn inbox is the seventh layer of hell. My actual email inbox is also terrible. Everyone knows now to get in touch with me, you have to text me. And as my friend Halai likes to joke, I will respond in three hours or three business days. It just depends on which moves you're in. I'm trying really hard to be better at it, but it's like I want to give every

everyone my attention and I kind of have to realize like I can't do that. But it still is like hard because there are so many people that I think have written in and said they feel seen or they felt really lonely or felt like they couldn't be themselves in HR before they like started reading my content. And that like I I don't even know how to like comp put that into words like what that means to me. The fact that like people feel like I made them more comfortable is like I have

That's it. Like I've also like done my job. Cause my job is to like foster and create like places where everyone feels like they belong. And I think it's really interesting because when I started content creating, I think I told you the story maybe another time, but I when they asked me, like, do you want to be a content creator? And and I was like, Well, here's the content creation world in HR at the time, like three ish years ago. I was like, There are white men who have never really done the job, who either have, you know, just built something for themselves after never doing it or haven't done it recently.

Like ha not having done HR during COVID is very different. And I said, There are these white men, but you know, white men are given respect and authority over everyone else. And then I say it and I said, and I see women and people of color most often writing about like one off topics or focusing on DEI. I don't see like many women creators in HR that are writing about everything. And I think it's because they're not given the authority or like the respect that these other people have. And I was like, but I'm doing this job.

And I'm and I'm also like younger. I don't think I'm like the youngest person doing HR, but like I'm younger. So I think people are like, what does she have? And I'm like, well, I've done four startups. Like I've doubled some of them. Like I've done three rapid growth ones. I've been through multiple f raise rounds of funding. Like I've seen a lot of shit that I think a lot of other people also feel. And the real part about HR that I feel like was really hurting us in the past was that people did have like these like guards or displays up on like we have to be prim and proper all the time.

Hebba Youssef (30:23.468)
And I'm like, no, I don't. I say F you, F this, F that. Like I say all those things on any given day. Like it doesn't mean I can't be a real person and do HR. And so I think like all of that combined with like people wanting to meet me as the brand grows, I think has just been like the most challenging thing because I see the impact I'm having on their lives and I want so desperately to like give them all my attention. But like there's limited hours in the day.

Rhona Pierce (30:49.452)
Yeah. If someone listening is thinking like, I want to say more, but I'm scared of the backlash, what advice would you give them?

Hebba Youssef (30:59.806)
think about your employer. So like what it what it if what you want to say more about could hurt your employment, I would say filter through that lens because we're at a state of the world where I mean I couldn't be unemployed right now, right? Like people, you need to be able to live your life and pay for things and the world is getting increasingly expensive. So if this puts if what you want to say puts you at risk of losing your job, that's a decision you need to make. That's a personal decision. Again, I have so much privilege because I have a CEO.

Who lets me say what I want to say, who even when we disagree on stuff, I'm like, can I talk about us disagreeing on it? He's like, go for it. So like I I have that privilege. I want to say that like very clearly. Not everyone does. So if you're able to post and it not impact your continued employment, I would say you should say the thing you're thinking. You should say it. There should be more content out there. First of all, I can scroll through LinkedIn and tell you what is AI content and what isn't at this point in the world.

If you are having an original thought and you want to put it out there, put it out there, please.

Rhona Pierce (32:01.848)
Yes, please.

Hebba Youssef (32:03.67)
Unless we all need it. Yeah, unless it's gonna harm somebody and then, you know, I'm not down with that.

Rhona Pierce (32:09.71)
So what's what something that you wish more HR leaders would admit out loud?

Hebba Youssef (32:17.084)
that this job sucks sometimes. That we do actually hate it here. So it's so funny because when I launched I Hate It Here, people were like, that's such a negative name. And I was like, actually, if you know me, and I'm a very positive person. And also, hate is not a bad emotion. I'm here to destigmatize it. Hate means you dislike something enough potentially to try to go make a change. Yes. And I hate a lot of things about the way we do HR.

Because they are rooted in systems that do not support most of the employees. They are rooted in systems that were built by people who wrote philosophical papers on how to do it. And then we as HR were forced to enact it. And not everybody, there's a lot of there's a lot of brilliant, amazing HR leaders out there that are like, absolutely not. I do not ascribe to that and I'm gonna build something better. Go you, whoever you are, slide into my DMs. I will try to answer them because

I want more of you in my life, essentially. And so I think the thing though about HR is like, yeah, we do really hate it here sometimes. Our our jobs, I I I've said this a lot and I'm maybe I'll get hate for it this time again. I feel like we have one of the most impossible jobs at an organization. We're beholden to what the business wants, but then held responsible for how the employees react to that. Yes. And those two oftentimes.

at bad organizations are in conflict with one another. At great organizations they're aligned. It's really hard to build a great organization. You are dealing with humans, you're dealing with the most complicated variable in the world, humans.

Rhona Pierce (33:56.462)
Yes. We're so grateful for people like you that actually speak out and and have these thoughts and think this way. we need more of that in our space. So if if I hate it here only did one thing for readers, what do you hope that is?

Hebba Youssef (34:12.333)
Give them a tactical takeaway. I always try to put one in there because I want someone to read it and try something new the next day. That's my I'm trying to solve your problem. So as much as I can give you advice on how to solve it, I'm gonna give you three different ways to do something and I'm gonna say go do that. I can the other thing is like not HR is not the same everywhere.

So we all have different organizations, we have different leaders, everyone is a different again, humans with all of our perspective and our lived experience are different. And so what works for one organization might not work for another. So I always try to account for that when I'm giving like suggestions on what to do and then link to more resources. Like if they really want to go deep on this one thing I'm suggesting, here's another resource they can read.

Rhona Pierce (34:59.502)
Amazing. Amazing. So this has been an amazing conversation. But before we wrap, it's time for everyone's, well, mostly my favorite segment. It's called Plea to the Fifth. Okay. And technically, this isn't your first time in the workfluencer courtroom. You were brave enough to play plea to the fifth at Transform, but now you're in the hot seat and I've got a few questions I didn't get to ask you then. Same deal. You can answer honestly or plea to the fifth.

But only to one question. And either way, the internet is absolutely going to judge you. Are you ready?

Hebba Youssef (35:34.462)
Mm so ready. It's gotta scare it.

Rhona Pierce (35:37.838)
I'm kinda scared. All right. So have you ever made a meme about someone and they didn't know it was about them?

Hebba Youssef (35:45.613)
Yes.

Rhona Pierce (35:48.339)
right. What's a piece of standard HR advice that you've given that you don't actually follow yourself?

Hebba Youssef (35:56.11)
block your calendar.

I always give people that advice and I'd rarely do it. But I currently have okay, to be fair, I currently have Wednesdays and Fridays mostly blocked off, but I meant like in general, like time boxing your calendar to like do work. I don't do that, but I suggest it often.

Rhona Pierce (36:16.638)
That's a great idea. so last question. Who in the HR slash workplace content space do you secretly think is completely full of it?

Hebba Youssef (36:32.962)
Do I answer this or plead the ph

Well, I answered the other two, so I'm fully able to plead the fifth on this one. I'm gonna plead the fifth, Rona. I'm not gonna put I'm not gonna put that negative energy out there. I'll keep it for the group chat. I'm just kidding. I just there are I will how about this? I can plead the fifth halfway and just say there are a lot of people out there who are full of shit. And the first thing I will tell you to do is go look up their background. Sorry. And if they have not worked in HR but claim they are an HR influencer, if they

Have not held an HR leadership type role, either like a manager, director, even a VP, CPO, any sort of management role, the responsibilities in HR, I would also say be careful on trusting what they say. And honestly, anyone can say that they're an expert in something and actually have no experience whatsoever. And I would just filter, I'm not saying you have to go hate them or not unfollow them, just filter their advice through that lens and know that there are people out there who do this work day to day that might have less followers, but are

Doing the work.

Rhona Pierce (37:36.142)
Great advice. so thank you so much for bringing the honesty, the real talk. I would expect less of you. I was not expecting less. your newsletter might be called I Hate It Here, but I absolutely loved this conversation, every conversation I have with you. so before we wrap, for anyone who isn't already subscribed, following, or lurking, what's the best way for people to keep up with everything that you're doing?

Hebba Youssef (38:01.262)
Definitely LinkedIn. Hit that little bell in the corner. You can follow me. I post almost every day, sometimes multiple times a day, and I'm always resharing really cool things I'm seeing there. So it's like a great way to find other people to follow, not just me. and then you can actually Google I hate it here, and it's pretty much me. I come up. Taylor Swift also comes up. We're working on it. Taylor Swift and I are gonna have to have a heart to heart. If you're listening, Taylor, let's talk. but it's me and her. Like it's her song, and then it's the website. I have a podcast, the newsletter.

And I have a community called Safe Space. If you're an HR leader and you're really looking for support, please join the community. We would look for people who have like a minimum of five years of experience working in HR. there's a free membership tier and a paid membership tier, both unlock many things. And I would love to have you there. We're planning events in every city, and we're gonna be around the world everywhere soon.

Rhona Pierce (38:52.43)
Amazing. And as a Safe Spacer, I can say it's one of the best communities out there. I love everyone in there. It's there's so much the group chat is in there and Safe Space. So if you're in HR, you want to be in Safe Space. And I'll link all of your the links to the newsletter to your LinkedIn, everything. Thanks again so much for being on the pod.

Hebba Youssef (39:14.328)
Day. You're the best. This was the most fun I've had on a podcast ever.

Rhona Pierce (39:18.606)
Amazing. Whether you're leading a team, writing a newsletter, or just trying to survive your next all hands, Hebba reminds us that honesty scales and so does trust. If you're not already subscribed to I Hate It Here, go fix that. You'll laugh, you'll nod in painful agreement, and you'll probably forward it to a HR bestie who needs to read it. The link is in the show notes. Big thanks to Hebba for sharing her brain and her behind the scenes process with us.

I've got more episodes coming your way soon with creators, operators, and people who aren't afraid to say the quiet part out loud. Hit subscribe so you don't miss it. Workfluencer is produced by Perceptible Studios. Learn more about how we can help you use video to attract, engage, and retain qualified talent at Perceptiblstudios.com. If you're enjoying the Workfluencer pod, share it with someone who's changing how we talk about work or who should be.

And hey, if this episode gave you ideas or inspiration, leave us a five-star review. Reviews help other listeners find us. And frankly, they make my day. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.