How to Become a Content Creator Inside Your Company

Shannon Ogborn (00:00.14)
They have encouraged me to use my voice, but just be extra thoughtful about how I'm saying it, just to consider the point of view of Ashby. When you're a content creator and you go out into the world and people are like, you are exactly who I thought you would be. That's one of the best compliments that you can get as a content creator.

Rhona Pierce (00:22.506)
It's really something that I think is gonna be beneficial.

Shannon Ogborn (00:25.358)
Especially with AI slop content coming out, that's exactly the opposite of where we want to be because humans want to interact with humans. They want to hear people's thoughts and opinions. Creating content with no name attached to it, it's like who did this? Who wrote this? Who's the person? Who's the face? Like I wanna know.

Rhona Pierce (00:49.959)
And I think it's on us as creators to be honest with companies because it's not gonna end well.

Recruiters hit post hoping their boss doesn't notice. Shannon's boss not only noticed, they built her a platform. As the voice behind Ashby's offer accepted podcast, she's redefining what it means to create for a company that actually believes in creators. Today, we're digging into what it really takes to build trust, grow a brand, and create impact when the logo on your mic is the same as the one on your paycheck. Shannon, welcome to Workfluencer.

Shannon Ogborn (01:27.15)
Thank you so much for having me, very excited to be here.

Rhona Pierce (01:29.888)
I am so excited for this conversation. You are in this very unique position where Ashby actually pays you to create content. How did that even happen? Like walk me through how you went from recruiting ops to becoming a corporate content creator.

Shannon Ogborn (01:46.168)
Yeah, that is such a good question. It happened a little bit by chance, but excited to share my learnings along the way today. When I started at Ashby January of 2022, I started in a customer facing role as a RecOps consultant, and I was helping companies set up their ATS for best data outcomes, helping them build dashboards and reports to really do the data storytelling within their organization. About a year and change later, we decided to open up this.

Community role. And at first I was like, wow, this is such an amazing cool role. And I'm sure I know plenty of people who'd be really excited about this. And then two weeks later I was like, shit. my God. I've made a huge mistake. I this is actually my dream job. And I'm sorry to everyone who sent me a DM to refer them because I probably didn't end up responding. But I applied, I went through the process, I did a work trial, the whole kit and caboodle. And

One of the big things when I moved into that role was starting the podcast, which one of our former colleagues, Cole, felt very passionately about getting that started. And so we knew that the person who came into this role would be doing the podcast. I also run currently our recruiting operations community, and so just that it was kind of the organic way to get the chance to to step into this role.

Rhona Pierce (03:10.484)
Amazing. I love that story. And yeah, sometimes you see a role and you're like, wait, I'm the person who likes this role. so what did your first piece of Ashby content look like? Like and how did it feel hitting publish under a company name?

Shannon Ogborn (03:26.358)
Yeah, with the podcast, we had recorded three sort of pilot episodes that released at one time. So with our CEO Benji, and then two additional. And I was super anxious because not only were they the first episodes I ever recorded for the offer accepted podcast, but there was it felt like there was a lot riding on it, people liking you as a content creator and

Listening to your voice and what you have to say, but also your ability to be a good conversationalist and be a good active listener is super important. And so I just I felt a little bit I'm kind of an anxious person to begin with, but I felt a lot of anxiety of

Will people like this? Are we going the right direction? Are these conversations valuable? And for me, the most important thing is always to create value for our very deserving talent community. And so that was kind of what was going through my head. Like, is are did these conversations drive value? Can people get something tangible out of these?

Rhona Pierce (04:35.606)
I love that. and it's so real what you're talking about. Like everything that goes in your head, it's like, I have to keep the conversation going. People have to like this. All of that that happens in your head as a creator and as a podcaster. If you've made it this far into the episode and you're not subscribed yet, now's a good time. But how do you balance being like authentic Shannon with being the voice of Ashby? Was that easy for you or is it something that took practice?

Shannon Ogborn (05:03.052)
I think that our VP of marketing would probably agree that it wasn't always that easy for me. The most important thing, if someone is thinking about creating content under a company or in conjunction with a company, you really have to have alignment on what their vision is so that you can deliver the content that is expected. And am

I like to describe myself as a person of passion. Even my mother says that I can be passionate about just about anything. And so I think my previous way of operating, not just with the podcast, but also on places like LinkedIn, where, you know, four years ago I might have used to pop off on somebody. Can't do that. And I think that is has long term actually been very much in my benefit.

And to the credit of our VP of marketing and also my direct manager, they have encouraged me to use my voice, but just be extra thoughtful about how I'm saying it, what I'm saying, and just to consider the point of view of Ashby. And after you know, several years of doing this.

It makes total sense, but it does take a little bit of time to get there. And I think it's no wonder, right, that so many content creators are independent because a lot of people have a mindset like, I want to say what I want to say, how I wanna say it, when I wanna say it. And I think that's totally fine. Once you get into an organization and you're creating content for an organization, you have to scrap all of that and start to think about.

What are the business goals that we're trying to accomplish through this content? What is the business trying to say? What who are we trying to showcase as a business? And then you insert your own authentic flair into it, but it is a difficult balance and it it definitely takes a lot more thought. And I'm glad for that because my thoughtfulness of

Shannon Ogborn (07:20.142)
popping off on LinkedIn wasn't always super constructive. And now I've been pushed to and I have a mission for my own content just to be constructive and moving the conversation forward in everything that I'm doing. And it really allowed me to take a step back and think about how I was achieving that. And then also how I was lifting up our community through the content through the company that I work for.

Rhona Pierce (07:43.99)
I love that how you've reframed it because a lot of people can take that as a negative thing, but it's true. Like, even as an independent creator, you should be putting out content that's valuable, that has some type of business, because it's your business now. It's like literally, you don't have an automatic paycheck. So it's like you should be thinking about these things and not just popping off. Yeah, you can, but should you really? So I like how you frame that. And it's really something that I think is going to be beneficial.

For you long-term, like forever, do you have like a set of questions that you ask yourself before hitting publish?

Shannon Ogborn (08:21.186)
With the offer accepted podcast to start, so I'll start with that and then I'll maybe talk a little bit about LinkedIn. With the podcast, the main thing that I want people to get from the podcast, and I tell this to every guest that we bring on as we're doing prep, I want people to listen to this and walk away with something tangible that they in theory could implement today, tomorrow, a year from now, whatever the timeline looks like. I think a lot of content.

Is sort of high-level chit chat. And I and I don't necessarily think that's bad, but especially when you're representing a business, the goal is to move the community forward in a very tangible way. And so we just get straight into it. We don't do the chatter at the top. And so every time I but I've already built rapport with the guest through

Chatting with them before and and through other means. And I think that's really important because that's how the conversation feels organic. But the question I ask myself at the end of every recording is: will people get value from this? Is there something tangible that they can take away that they could implement? Not everything applies to everybody, and that's fine, but could they if they wanted to? And that's kind of the main thing I think about from the offer-accepted standpoint. From LinkedIn,

And this is where I actually think I've had to really sit down with myself and do some brainwriting with myself on how I, you know, achieve this on LinkedIn. But the one thing that I've started to do is I have opinions, of course, but I want all of my content besides some of the funny like GIF ones.

To move the conversation forward. And in order to do that, I found the best way, especially to bring people along who might not necessarily agree with the sentiment that you're posting, is source data, source facts, and embed that into your content strategy. And I think that has done wonders on not only helping a lot of folks in various communities feel seen and heard.

Shannon Ogborn (10:39.714)
But it also creates this effect for people who may not necessarily have always agreed with that the standpoint that you're bringing. no, this isn't just an opinion. Like they're bringing me on for this journey and they're t they're showing me. They're showing me. They're not just telling me. And I find that to be really important with my content on LinkedIn, of course, besides the the funny ones.

that or just personal experience like with ADHD I post a decent bit about. But those are the between offer accepted and LinkedIn, it's just the thoughtfulness and making sure people are getting value from it and that you're bringing people along for the journey.

Rhona Pierce (11:21.09)
That is is so important. And I love that you have that like forefront whenever you're you're posting. So let's talk a little about every business, every job that you have, they measure you on something. So like for your role, what metrics actually matter when your company is the one footing the bill?

Shannon Ogborn (11:42.028)
We have goals and we we operate a lot on strategic initiatives and things aren't always a one-to-one. And I think the what your business goal is determines what your content looks like. If we went into or anyone goes into content saying, We want to book demos from this, your content's gonna be impacted by that in a way that people probably don't like because

What do people not want to hear when they're listening to a thought leadership podcast? A pitch slap. They don't want it. So I think there's thankfully, from my manager to RVP to even our CEO, we understand that what we're trying to deliver value-wise is content for the community that is actionable, that is helpful, and that progresses them in their career. We feel strongly about that. So I think.

From that high level standpoint, that's that's great. On specific metrics, and maybe this is a hot take in like the content creation industry, downloads don't mean jack. Poo poo zero.

Rhona Pierce (12:57.154)
They do not. Yes. Let's say that louder for everyone.

Shannon Ogborn (13:00.942)
And I think the thing that I see too, and I would even give this advice to my industry friends that are looking for sponsorships as well. Downloads don't tell you anything about how much people engage with your content. The things that we like to look at are retention. So, how much of an episode are people listening to? unique listeners.

You can download on a million platforms, but like the unique listener, that's how many people have we reached, and how many hours have people spent with our brand? So those aren't necessarily things that it's like, if you don't hit this, you're in trouble, sort of thing, but those are the things that we operate on to know that our content is well positioned for success. And if you're not looking at those things and you are a content creator for podcasts specifically,

I would definitely encourage you to look into that because if I'm a independent podcaster and I'm trying to sell a sponsorship and I get you're selling a mid-reel, you know, a mid-episode reel, I have a million downloads. Okay, but what's your retention? I don't know. Or twenty percent. It's like, okay, so people aren't even getting to the real, so that's not a good use of our spend. So I just encourage people to think about these things and

The other thing that I feel really excited about is our growth from our month over month growth, which we look at and we have industry benchmarks for. And then the other thing, the last thing, is new listeners to subscribers. Cause that shows you've reached the right people. They're engaged in your content. They want to hear it again. And so that now they've subscribed. You're not always going to reach the right people. Some people listen to an episode because it's

their boss internally, or some people listen to an episode because it's a popular speaker and they might not come back, or it's a founder and they only want to listen to founders, not heads of talent. Like there's there's various reasons for that. But keeping an eye on are the people that are new to listen subscribing, that shows you that you're reaching the right people and that they want to hear more from you. So we don't have any like, it's not like

Shannon Ogborn (15:21.24)
This is the end all be all, but we look at things holistically to make sure that the content is resonating with our audience and that we're providing them something valuable.

Rhona Pierce (15:29.966)
I absolutely think everyone needs to pause and re-listen to that again. especially the brands buying sponsorships and the creators selling sponsorships. And just really, it applies to any type of content that you're creating. If the people you're creating, if you're not reaching the people you're creating it for, and if they're not sticking around, you're wasting time actually.

So when you look at your metrics, you look at your retention, your unique listeners, your month over month growth, and your new listeners to subscribers. And let's say it's not going, like I'm sure it has happened at some point. It wasn't going like you wanted it to go. What does that inform? Like what do you change in your content to make sure that you hit those goals?

Shannon Ogborn (16:20.864)
It's funny, we have we work with a wonderful agency and they're really supportive and help us understand the general landscape. Not everyone, especially independent creators, can afford that type of support, but that is a benefit for sure of working within a company. It makes more s it's not a good use of my time. I'm not an expert editor. It does not make sense for me to be editing, sitting and editing when I have other responsibilities outside of creating content for Ashby. But

One thing came up recently where I saw a dip into metric and I was like, Hey, I'm a little bit panicked. Like, what's going on? We have a monthly meeting with them, and she was like, I knew you would ask this because I know you're looking at it all the time. And that's the other thing. Like, keep your eye on the ball. Like, don't let the content, I think when you're crew a creative creator, you can lose sight of

These metrics because you're just so into creating, but you have to look back so that you can know how to move forward. But we looked, I saw this metric. I was like, I'm worried, like this is under what we expect, and that we are sort of setting a goal to achieve. She's like, I knew you would ask this because you're always looking at it. The reason is you've had a lot of new listeners. And with new listeners, XYZ might happen.

We'll keep an eye on it and it should, it should normalize. And I'm like, okay, great. So sometimes it's really no action. It's like you're doing the right things because you're getting new listeners, which means your distr distribution is getting better. On the flip side of that, that means that something like episode retention might go lower because you're getting new listeners. Are they the right listeners? Not 100% of the time. And that's okay. People are trying it.

And they see it and they believe that you could be someone they want to listen to and all of those things. So it's it's the same that I feel honestly about recruiting metrics. What is your time to hire? What is your time to fill? That only tells a portion of the story. That tells you the what you have to do discovery to get to the why. And you have to use critical thinking to get to that answer. Or you have a really good partner like our agency partner who.

Shannon Ogborn (18:40.052)
Is is so great and helps us understand this across the board. Like there's certain things like in the summertime, listeners dip pretty significantly across podcasts, just more generally. But we actually didn't see that this summer. So we're like, what did we do that that helped us keep growing? And so there's all these things that are that.

You you just have to dig in instead of taking it at face value. 'Cause I was freaking out and she was like, No need to worry. I knew you'd be freaking out. Don't freak out. And so that's you just gotta you gotta get into the why and then and then make an action plan from there.

Rhona Pierce (19:20.062)
You are totally showing your recruiting ops background. And I love it as a fellow recruiting ops person as well. But yeah, you look at metrics and you take action on them and you like like you said, you can't move forward if you don't look back and learn from that and pivot and and change. And sometimes the data is telling you you're doing the right thing. It just takes time.

So let's forget Ashby for a moment. How do you measure success for yourself?

Shannon Ogborn (19:51.246)
That is a great question. I care a lot about the recruiting community. I like to call myself a recovering recruiter. I still very much see talent people as my people. It's the people that I leaned on for the majority of my career to date. And it's a community that I want to support. Every single time I get a message, this episode really resonated with me, or

your LinkedIn post really resonated with me, or like this, I actually took this back to my team and we made changes. That is success to me. And it's not based on numbers. It's not a numbers game. It's very anecdotal, but I am super motivated by those anecdotal stories. And it's funny because you don't always hear these things

Someone might think it and then they don't say anything, but I've met tons of people in person across conferences on the conference circuit and you know various other events. And when two people came up to me at at our Ashby One conference in San Francisco in May, and both of them separately, completely separate conversations, they didn't know each other, said the same thing. I go to offer accepted for upskilling. I was like, that's exactly what the goal is. So my

success parameters are probably more anecdotal than the retention and the hours spent with brand. But I feel really motivated by that. And because I care about this community so deeply, I really want them to get the most out of my content. And on the LinkedIn side, every time I post about ADHD, women in tech, people with disabilities and

other, you know, historically marginalized groups, I get a lot of messages just saying, thank you for bringing people along with this. Like I know I agree with this, but the fact that you're going out of your way to to bring people along for this and not just spout opinions and and kind of anger. And it's easy to be angry right now. So don't get me wrong about that. But like just bringing people along and and getting those messages to me, it

Shannon Ogborn (22:12.094)
It just it makes makes my heart happy and it also if one person gets something from one thing that I'm doing, I feel accomplished. So

Rhona Pierce (22:22.286)
Let's talk a little about the role itself because I've spoken to a lot of people. I mean, it's on paper, it's the dream, right? You're getting paid to create content and you have a steady paycheck, you've got benefits, all of that stuff. And these kinds of roles, they're still rare, but they're growing. What do you think is driving that change?

Shannon Ogborn (22:44.662)
In my opinion, people want to listen to people. And when and they it's it's all these innately human things, especially with AI slop content coming out. That's exactly the opposite of where we want to be as an organization, but I think in general, right? But I think a lot of companies are trying to automate some of this content and it's it's just not landing for them.

Because humans want to interact with humans. They want to hear people's thoughts and opinions. And I think what's really driving this forward is that a lot of companies are realizing that creating, and all of these things have value, right? But creating content with no name attached to it. It's like, who d who did this? Who wrote this? Who's the person? Who's the face? Like, I want to know.

Who they are. And then when you're a content creator and you go out into the world and people are like, you you are exactly who I thought you would be based on how you show up online. That that's actually one of that's success to me. That's that's one of the best compliments that you can get as a content creator. But they want to know that this person authentically cares about them and they're not just trying to sell them something, they're trying to move them forward in various ways.

And I think companies are also starting to realize that people consume content in different ways. And there's also all of these things with like LLMs and search that are becoming more relevant. So all of these things compounded together, I think, are pushing us in this direction where it's important that companies have a face. And sometimes that's the CEO. Sometimes that's if you think if you look back historically.

Developer relations, DevRels, they have actually been representing this in the industry for decades. And I think people are starting to see, that actually has great value other places in the org. So I that's why I think it's it's moving in that direction.

Rhona Pierce (24:56.906)
Yes. do you think so there's a lot of people who think it should always be the CEO. What do you say to those people?

Shannon Ogborn (25:06.21)
I think it's very important that your CEO has a voice and has an opinion. They are the ultimate representation of the brand because they are, at least most likely, the person who's going to be with the business the longest. So they will be the face of the brand the longest. One thing that I really respect about our CEO, Benji, is that he's out there, he goes to the things, he posts a lot of content because he also cares about moving the

you know, recruiting community forward. And it's important for people to know that he is bringing authenticity to the company that he's building. So I think it's really important for CEOs and leadership to have that presence. That said, I also don't think ever that all eggs should be in one basket. The people who people believe your employees the most

That's why more companies should be honestly doing employee generated content, but that's probably a whole nother thing. But that's it, it's really important that your employees are able to showcase whatever your goals are, the product, the culture. A lot of people are doing culture related stuff for employer brand. And the goals have to be right so that it feels it still feels authentic, but you're accomplishing a goal of getting your names out there and

Anyone at a company can be a content creator. And I think the company should be able to leverage the folks who are really interested in in creating that content, whether that be for their product, if they're customer facing, or someone who is like an advocate for the community or in this like more community style role, the the more the more the merrier, I say.

Rhona Pierce (26:58.894)
for someone who wants to pitch this kind of role to their company, or for leaders who are wanting to create one, what do they need to understand to make it work?

Shannon Ogborn (27:11.17)
I'll go back to something I said earlier, which is that alignment. What is your intention and what are your goals? If your intention is to just create, let's just say it's a SaaS company, demo, demo, demo, demo, demo. I don't know. I my maybe hot take is that I I don't know if that leads you to the best, the best, most valuable content for the community.

Now, I'm sure for some companies that that works, but the most important thing, whatever you decide, is that you're aligned with that content creator. I know that there's some folks who are, you know, might try to sell their podcast, let's say, to someone in-house. Say, like, you're really a like a big advocate for a design tool, and you have a podcast that's about design.

You're like, I want to sell this into XYZ design company. There has to be alignment on what the purpose is. And so I would really encourage both content creators and companies to say, like, what is the purpose of us doing this? And what will the outcomes be if we do it this way? Because I don't know. I I think for us, we're really invested in the community and that's where we s that's where we stand on it if we get

A demo like amazing, but like that's not the goal. I think for some companies it is, and that you know, that changes what their content looks like. And I think that's fine. But it has to be you have to be in agreement about the purpose. And if you are interviewing someone for this type of role, you have to be clear on your purpose so that the person coming in can be clear on the purpose, because if not, you're kind of probably gonna be on the road to Hades.

Rhona Pierce (29:08.142)
No, yeah, for sure. the the type of content that you would create to drive demos, which I agree with you, isn't it shouldn't be your end goal with content specifically, but we know there's lots of

Shannon Ogborn (29:22.968)
Not this, not thought leadership content. Exactly. You should there's things that we do that are are for that. And that's that's great. But yeah, if you're not clear on the purpose of where you're what you're trying, what behavior you're trying to drive Forget about it. Don't do it.

Rhona Pierce (29:40.096)
And I think it's on us as as creators to be honest with companies. When you're having those conversations, yes, you're interviewing for a role, or maybe you work at this company and you wanna pitch your content creation. If they're not aligned, you have to be honest. Forget about the money, forget about the stability because it's not gonna end well. So you have to be able to say, like, look, this isn't gonna work for me. you need maybe to explore other types of

creators because there are those creators that will create the demo driving content. They're the ones, there are other creators who want to do the thought leadership content. But I think it gets messy when we try to be like, let me just do this. That's where I've always seen it not work.

Shannon Ogborn (30:26.208)
It all goes back to being clear on who is the ICP for your content and does that align. If you were a creator, who is the ICP for your content? And does that align with the business and who the ICP they're looking for is? For example, there's a lot of folks in our space who create really amazing content for job seekers. They have a big following.

For job seekers, but they're not and and they're in the recruiting space, but they're not creating a lot of content for business, for driving, driving people to talent content. It's like this is my perspective on job seeking seeking from a talent point of view. And it's super valuable. That is a completely different ICP that they're targeting than the one, let's just say that offer accepted is targeting, which is pretty much like anyone who's involved in the hiring process, like.

Founders, sometimes we create content specifically for founders. Sometimes we're creating content for like kind of mid-level career folks. And sometimes it's strategy, but it's all centered around pretty much in-house hiring. And so bringing in job seeking topics would not be a good fit for us in the ICP that we have for the podcast. So it's just something, even when like folks

There's folks that reach out to me who are interested in being on the podcast. And it sucks. Like I hate saying no to people, but I'm like, your value is pretty firmly in X category. Right now, that's not what we're focused. That's not the profile that we're focused on. Absolutely, you're first on my list if anything changes. But we have to stay firm in this because that's what people expect to get from this podcast. If you're over here chatting about,

This and that and this completely unrelated thing. People don't know who you are as a content creator or as a content stream, and they're less likely to stay because the relevance dwindles and kind of peaks and up and down and up and down and up and down. And so I think it's important for people to understand who their ICP is ideal customer profile is for their content.

Rhona Pierce (32:43.04)
Yes. And it's very hard, like you say, when people reach out and they want to be on your podcast and you're like, Sorry, I can't do that. But it it's like just imagine walking into let's say McDonald's. You know you want you either want burgers or fries or something, you want fast food, right? And then all of a sudden they start selling like fine dining, like steak. It's like, wait, I I was

I wanted a burger and fries. Like I didn't come here for steak type of thing. Well that's what happens when you just start talking about everything and whatever and have everyone so yeah.

Shannon Ogborn (33:17.526)
Yeah, brand is l largely based on consistency of the expectation. If you wanna build a brand, it's not saying like you have to pick one area, but you have to position it the right way. And people need to know what to expect when they are listening to your content or looking at your LinkedIn. It's just kind of the reality.

Rhona Pierce (33:42.51)
has creating content changed anything about how you see recruiting?

Shannon Ogborn (33:49.524)
One thing that I love that it actually ties back to personal success and how I see content creation and and how I view personal success. One thing that's really important to me when creating content, specifically with talent folks for the podcast, is how do we make people who are not as visible on LinkedIn or other channels

You know, they're not in the top 100 list. Although we've had plenty of those and they're all amazing, but they're they're not the most visible people in talent. But damn, are they doing the work? Like they're just so incredible and so intelligent and they just bring their own brilliance to the talent space, but they may not be the person who is talking about it all the time on LinkedIn, which is obviously the primary platform for talent folks. I love finding those people and bringing them on.

And the most exciting thing that people say to me after an episode airs, they're like, you made me sound so smart. And I'm like, you made yourself sound so smart because you are so smart. You are brilliant. And I'm just glad to be providing that opportunity for people in the space. And so my overall learning, I would say, is there's so many more amazing people out there doing incredible work that aren't posting on social media.

They aren't on every podcast. And people should go out and and look for those people and and try to chat with them because most of them are pretty open about chatting. They just aren't the type of person who spends their energy on creating content. And I think that's totally okay. My favorite guests are the ones who have never been on a podcast ever before. And I'm like, you're perfect. They're I've never been on a podcast before. I'm like, I don't know if like I'm the right person. And I'm like, you're you're the perfect person because you have so much to say that

Is missing from the industry that's unheard, and we need your voice. And and I love to be the amplifier of those voices.

Rhona Pierce (35:57.558)
Love that. And yes, it's it's it's totally different, but it's like it's so good when someone isn't like tired of saying the same thing and no no hate or nothing to creators. I mean, I'm a creator myself, but you go on podcasting, you get asked the same questions over and over and over again. so you kind of like have to intentionally

not be bored with your own answers. But when it's someone who's never done it before, they're like, it's it's gold. It's actual gold.

Shannon Ogborn (36:28.778)
It's it's funny because as a content creator, it's easier if you can go places and repeat the same thing. And that's brand, right? And there's there's value to that. I always shake that up. So it's people are like, like usually I talk about XYZ. I'm like, great. We're not talking about that. Let's talk about something else. I'm like, have you been on any podcast lately? Have you created any other content lately? What are you most passionate about that you haven't said a lot about?

And really like digging in deep to find those topics because there's so many content streams in the talent space. And in order to be truly differentiated, you need to make the effort to get differentiated. You need to prep your guests. You need to sit down with them and dig deep into a topic so you know exactly what you're talking about before you talk about it. That's what that's why the guests feel successful because they're set up for success from the jump.

Rhona Pierce (37:25.164)
Yes, yes. So if you've ever watched Workfluencer, you know there's always a segment. and I thought we would do one of my favorite segments, just to break up the conversation a little. So it's called plea to the fifth. I'll ask you three questions. You can plea to the fifth only once, right? But you're not gonna know what question comes next. So use your use it wisely. Are you ready?

Shannon Ogborn (37:52.462)
I'm ready. I'm a little scared.

Rhona Pierce (37:56.174)
I love that. So what's the one topic you'd love to talk about on Offer Accepted that your producer would probably say no to?

Shannon Ogborn (38:06.174)
I personally feel very passionately about helping job seekers. But as we already discussed, it just doesn't fit in with our it just doesn't fit in with what we're trying to accomplish with the podcast. I think it's a really important topic. I'm so glad that it is well covered in this space, but I have a lot of personal passion and fire behind it. So I always like

I always wanna get it get it in there somewhere, but that wouldn't be you know, that it just wouldn't be the right channel to do it.

Rhona Pierce (38:41.176)
Understandable. All right. If you could see the analytics of any creator's content to prove that they're not as successful as they claim, whose would you pick?

Shannon Ogborn (38:52.78)
my god. my god. I think that I think I probably can't answer that one. Hopefully the next one's less spicy. I think I think like

Like, I won't plea the fifth on that one on the specifics, but I think from a greater landscape, that's where it comes back to the downloads don't mean Jack. It's amazing that if you have like even when we were going to switch podcast agencies, we talked to some agencies that were definitely, I would call them more in like the growth hacker space. It's like, we can get you to like.

Top 10 on Apple, I'm like, I don't need to be top 10 on Apple. We're a niche B2B recruiting podcast. So like th there's those things that are just like the the numbers just don't, you know, they don't a add up. But yeah. I also I also, I'm not gonna lie, I actually try to avoid as much content in our space as possible just because

I have my own ideas and I don't want anyone else's ideas to like taint what's already in my mind. So I actually like quite avoid a lot of a lot of content in space.

Rhona Pierce (40:15.584)
Same. All right. Last one. If you could borrow if you could borrow another creator's creative brain for a week, whose would you pick and what kind of content would you make?

Shannon Ogborn (40:28.554)
I love HIBA's content. I hate it here. Because it is so authentic. And I think that's why it really resonates with people. And in a lot of ways, she too is bridging this gap between not only is she a content creator with Work Week, but she's also their CPO. And so I think we share a lot of similarities in that.

Space. And I also think her content style shows that especially in the people ops and talent space, you can insert humor, you can create this authenticity while still getting a more serious or you know high intent point across. So yeah, that's what I would say. My friend

Rhona Pierce (41:21.774)
Yes, our friend Himba. So yeah, she is she's amazing. She was on the pod as well, and she survived Plato the Fifth just like you did. So thank you. All right. So when you think about the next generation of workfluencers, which is what I like to call us, what do you hope they inherit from this moment that we're in right now?

Shannon Ogborn (41:43.98)
It's funny because people are like, you're a podcast host. I'm like, no, I'm just like someone who hosts a podcast. It I try, maybe I'm just jaded and burned from my previous company layoffs, but I I try not to associate myself like so much with work and content. But what I'm really hoping that people get from this moment is the huge craving for authenticity in content.

There was, I don't know if you saw my post on this, but just for just for shits and giggles, I tried in AI Avatar to create, you know, did a script, put it in. I was like, this is horrendous because the tone inflection and all that's gonna get better, but there's just nothing that beats knowing the person is creating this content for you, and they're putting in the literal FaceTime to create.

all of this and people just want that authenticity. There's nothing worse than meeting someone in person who's a content creator and being like

Are you the same like I'm just what? And and it feels like you've been duped and lied to. And I think the most successful c content creators of the future will be the people who maintain that authenticity and care and passion for the community that they're serving. Because there's definitely content creators out there that are like in for views and rage bait and all of these things. And

You know, I always think like in service of what? And I think people who main maintain that authenticity and in service of who they're trying to communicate to, those will be the most successful.

Rhona Pierce (43:38.222)
Amazing. Well, I've loved this conversation, like every conversation I've ever had with you. where can listeners connect with you?

Shannon Ogborn (43:47.702)
Yes, LinkedIn is the best place. I often have a backlog, so if I don't respond, I'm so sorry. I go through like a quarterly ADHD mania where I then go through go through everything and try to respond to messages. So that's a great place. ashbyhq.com slash podcast. That is where our podcast content lives. Also Spotify, Apple, YouTube, the usual, usual suspects, but

Those are the places you can find me or on the conference circuit. I'm sure I'll see you all around.

Rhona Pierce (44:21.678)
Amazing. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Shannon Ogborn (44:24.792)
Thank you, Ron, I appreciate it.

Rhona Pierce (44:26.574)
If you're enjoying the Workfluencer pod, share with someone who's changing how we talk about work or who should be. And hey, if this episode gave you ideas or inspiration, leave us a five-star review. Reviews help other listeners find us. And honestly, it makes my day. This show is produced by Workfluencer Media. Visit WorkfluencerMedia.com to learn how we help companies build video-first content systems that attract, engage, and retain qualified talent.

That's Workfluencer Media dot com. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.