How To Land Brand Deals as Corporate Influencers with Lorna Erickson & Victoria Gates

Rhona Pierce (00:00.13)
You went from zero to 30 plus brand deal.

And so the very first one we did was like

I think it was for a couple hundred dollars, you know, it was very low. And we just were like, let's just go for it. Cause it really set the stage for us to see the impact that we could have. Cause even that video, they ended up boosting behind it and it ended up getting like six figure views. And we ended up getting a brand deal with that company. So just asking the question ended up getting us, I believe actually that deal was an $18,000 deal just from asking that question. Without asking, we would be $18,000 less in revenue. So.

Simple, simple thing.

How many followers did you have before you decided like, okay, I can go get a brand deal?

Lorna Erickson (00:41.966)
First of all, the way we started posting, when we first started posting, you're getting a couple hundred views initially, if that, you know? So there's like lot of fear when you initially start, but we were really lucky. I know it was good content. We were also really lucky to have a video that went viral very early and when we started posting and that's where we got a lot of our followers initially. So we went from like, you know, our friends and family that's like, sure, I'll follow your new company account like me to like what, 60 or 70,000 followers? Like it was pretty.

I had less than a thousand followers and I got a video and I charged way too little for it and the video has an affiliate link that still makes me money. Welcome back everyone to the Workfluencer podcast. Today I'm chatting with Lorna Erickson and Victoria Gates about the business side of being a Workfluencer. Thank you so much for being here on the show today ladies.

We're so glad to be here.

Thank you.

So, you both have decades of interviewing experience. You could have stayed behind the scenes as consultants or trainers. what made you decide that content creation was the right way to share your expertise?

Victoria Gates (01:52.974)
You know, that's really funny because we definitely didn't start out thinking that we were gonna in any way be showing our faces on the internet and making content. It was kind of by accident, which seems crazy, but we were working together and, you know, created a course for interviewers or hiring managers to train them. you know.

That was after years of case studies and data and developed over time that we created this content. And, you know, I was just bothering Lorna so much. I was just like, hey, do you think other people might benefit from seeing some of this content? And I was like, have you heard of TikTok? And I think Lorna said, what's a TikTok?

Who's tiktok? I I was that far off. I had no idea.

So we created our accounts and off we go, about three years later here. Yeah, it's been a fun and a wild ride.

Amazing. And you're running this as a two person team, which is really, it's pretty unique in the creator space, especially in our space. How do you like structure that partnership? Like what, does each person do?

Lorna Erickson (03:02.574)
Thank goodness we have a two person team, by the way. Like the people who do it solo, I have to give so much credit to you because I can't imagine it. And thankfully, mean, Victoria and I have kind of just fell into one, what we enjoy and two, what we're good at. And so, I mean, I'll talk about my part and then Victoria, think can talk about her part a little bit, but I can't turn my brain off sometimes. So when I'm supposed to be sleeping or just trying to enjoy a shower.

I get script ideas in my brain and I'm like yelling at my AirPods to like write it in my notes section or I have to like turn over in the middle of the night and like type it in my notes section. I do, I get to do a lot of the creative script writing and the video, videoing. It's definitely, you can tell like we just fell into this because I'm like using all the wrong terms. so I get to do like the, to me what is fun and creative and then Victoria.

She just brings the structure, thank goodness.

Yeah, for sure. mean, what's interesting is I do a lot of the boring stuff, too. So a lot of the finances and the contracts and the brand deals and negotiations, the actual posting falls down to me. Sometimes captions like creating that hashtag, you know, the game. I know, you know it, the game, the, you know, all of that. So I definitely play that part. And we have found our our

worlds and it works really well together. But to her point, like it makes us unique and we try to showcase that and and benefit like you get two for the price of one here on this channel. So it's kind fun.

Lorna Erickson (04:35.244)
Bye.

Did you like plan that ahead of time or like it just naturally happened based on your personalities?

It was totally natural. Like it just, fell into it. So we've just, that's been really, we've been really lucky with just how that went. But I think that's part of what drew us to each other because we shared a common interest and passion, which is making the interviewing experience better for everyone involved. And then that's the basis of everything we do. And then who does what really just kind of works out naturally. So it's been a really fun ride.

goodness yeah

amazing. like you guys made a deliberate choice to focus on hiring managers, rather than job seekers, right? hiring managers is a much smaller, presumably more valuable audience. like, what specific things told you like, this is the right business decision?

Lorna Erickson (05:26.35)
They're the problem. It is interesting because it's like once we were working in corporate America and trying to identify talent, working with the hiring managers, you're like, wow, we're not getting consistent feedback here. And it's really hard to give candidates feedback when it's not good.

And so, you know, it evolved over time where we realized, okay, wait a second, hiring managers are the ones that need the most help. It's the least trained skillset in corporate America. And they're going to be investing the most in the people that they hire. And these people are going to make or break their company. And so to us, it just seemed so, so backwards. And so we did do, it was about a seven year case study across North America with over 90 different hiring managers at director level or above.

We got to test a whole bunch of different kinds of interviewing techniques and track the techniques that worked. so, and luckily it did work. And so we got to expand into different types of companies that were highly technical. And it was just, it just kind of worked out that way to where we realized we could positively impact the hiring process by helping the hiring managers. And that's, that's where we've stuck with.

Yeah, it's funny because you said it's a smaller, perhaps more valuable. And I will say it's been tempting. You see viral videos with candidate like advice for candidates all the time. Like, and it is tempting. There's been even times throughout our time together where I've said, Lorna, are you sure we have this experience like we we have, you know, been in this arena of recruitment and, you know, we made a decision as a team that that is just not where our focus is. There are so many wonderful candidate coaches out there. It is.

Victoria Gates (07:10.048)
amazing. That space has so, so many people and it's great. But we think carving out this little niche was a very intentional decision. And oftentimes I say to, you know, people will ask me that same question that you ask. And it's like, there are so many people out there and we're always coaching candidates how to answer this bad interview question and what to do if an interviewer does this. And it's like, hold up. Like we wouldn't have to do that if we just told the hiring manager, stop asking the bad interview question. So

Chicken and the egg, you know, we're going for the chicken.

That was actually my next question because it's like, know as well, I started out with jobseeker content and I quickly pivoted to speaking to recruiters and just HR folks. But the dopamine, mean, isn't it tempting sometimes to be like, look, because you see the other creators, that's like, I could have created a video that went that viral that quick. Like, is it ever tempting?

100%. 100%. But I'll say this, know, what's been great about the community that we've been able to build, and I think we've towed the line very well, my phrase is that we've created like a toxic support group for candidates, you know? Like they're engaging with our content because they're like, yes, I had this happen to me. Yes, I feel seen. And while that might not directly impact the audience, like the hiring managers that we want to work with currently, those people will likely become a hiring manager someday.

and they're gonna remember us too. I don't necessarily think attracting candidates is something that we're actively not doing. I just think our audience that we're speaking to is always consistently the hiring managers and we hope we get a little love from the candidates here and there too, that helps.

Rhona Pierce (08:51.299)
So let's get a bit tactical, right? You went from zero to 30 plus brand deals. How did your very first brand deal come about?

Hmm. Yeah. So it's been a journey. And for those folks that are listening that are either just attempting or thinking about it or you're already in it, like just know I feel you on the journey because we did not know what we were doing. We had no clue. And it was just like one of these things that I said, hey, like, I don't know, we have a good amount of followers. Do think we should like try to see if a brain wants to work with us? And it was like, sure, why not? And we had been

gotten a few emails here and there, you know, but most of the time they were very vague and very low paying, right? And so the very first one we did was like, I think it was for a couple hundred dollars, you know, it was very low. And we just were like, let's just go for it. Let's just try it and see how it goes, you know? Looking back, is that a company or a brand that we would probably align with today? No, not that they're a bad brand. It's just not necessarily totally aligned.

but we got a really good amount of experience that we could use, like just even in that first interaction. So it was one video, one post, a couple hundred bucks negotiated over email. We never had like a call with them or anything. It was just kind of a transactional relationship. And honestly, I'm grateful for it because it really set the stage for us to see the impact that we could have. Because even that video, they ended up boosting behind it and ended up getting like six figure views. So it's like.

you we were able to see, okay, this is actually really valuable. And we totally adjusted our strategy to instead of, you know, going with people that are reaching out to us, what are the brands that we admire and targeting them?

Rhona Pierce (10:37.784)
Hey, have you subscribed? Let's fix that. It's the easiest way to support this show. So that first one, they had reached out to you guys or did you guys reach out to?

They reached out to us. We had a few, I mean, very small, like I said, very small, of sometimes sketchy. mean, sometimes you get these inbox messages and you're like, what is this? Is this real? But it was early on. This was, I mean, we've been doing brand deals now for, gosh, Lorna, I'm trying to think. I think it was August, 2023. So not even two years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah.

Yes.

So I get this question a lot. I've actually gotten a few times this week. What, how many followers did you have before you decided like, okay, I can go get a brand deal?

Mmm. That's a good question. I'm trying to think.

Lorna Erickson (11:31.83)
It is hard. we like, first of all, the way we started posting, when we first started posting, you know, you're getting a couple hundred views initially, if that, you know, so there's like a lot of fear when you initially start, but we were really lucky. And, and I mean, I know it was good content, but we were also really lucky to have a video that went viral very early. And when we started posting and that's where we got a lot of our followers initially. So we went from like,

you know, our friends and family that's like, sure, I'll follow your new company account like meet to like what 60 or 70,000 followers like it was pretty.

I want to say we probably had about between the because we were only at that time going after two platforms. So when we first started we were very focused on Instagram and TikTok Facebook. We really just didn't have the time or energy for and LinkedIn wasn't yet. That was a we can talk about that. That was an intentional switch that we did but Instagram and TikTok. I would say we maybe had combined a hundred K when we went for our first brand deal. I wouldn't recommend that people wait that long. That was just like

the flow for us, right? And to be, as I've stated, we do not come from a marketing background. We do not have like any experience in content creation. Neither one of us had done any of that. I had a passion for it. Like I just enjoy the psychology of it and all of that, but I don't have any formal training in it. So we didn't really necessarily have a number we were looking for. It was about the timing for our business, what felt good to us and us finally being comfortable and confident in what we're posting. So I would say if people feel like

confident that your message is being received well, whatever that means in relation to your percentage of followers, if your engagement is there. And there's, can Google the percentages of what people say is good, know, industry standard, probably 3 % and above, but it's like, you know, if you feel good about that, I think there's no bad time to just start reaching out to brands because they're looking for influencers of all different levels, you know?

Rhona Pierce (13:29.528)
I love that. And when I was asked that this week, I told the person, I think I got my first brand deal. I had less than a thousand followers. I literally did. Yeah. And I got a video and I charged way too little for it. And the video has an affiliate link that still makes me money. Like every month I'm like, man, that, that YouTube channel is still alive. Thanks for the $30 or whatever that I make a month from that.

What the?

Victoria Gates (13:59.086)
That's lunch. That's some breakfast from school. Wherever you please.

So you mentioned when we were talking, when we were prepping for this, that you've made about six figures in partnerships. How did you figure out like your pricing strategy when you, like you said, had no experience in any of this?

That's been a journey over time for sure. It started out by just Googling, to be honest. At the very beginning, it was a lot of just like, what does Google say? Which now we would just ask chat or Claude, right? So it started out there. We didn't have that back then. And from there, I think where it's evolved, which I'm really proud of is through conversations with Lorna and I, we have now evolved to instead of like what other people deem as valuable.

we have evolved to a place of what number makes us feel good about us spending our time on this. And we are not creators that, and nothing against creators that do this, it's just our style of content creation is very unique. We have been told from some of our brand partnerships that the customization, the way that we work it into a skit, it's very unique. We're scripting something out fully. We don't necessarily do...

Many brand partnerships where we're talking at camera or it's a voiceover. It's very much skip format and that is unique And so with that, you know, you pay a premium for it because that's a lot of creative work that goes into it beyond You know just a concept where we're going back and forth with a script. We are then getting approval We're sending a draft video And we have a pretty consistent process with that, but it's just one of those things that just has evolved over time and I think

Victoria Gates (15:45.172)
One misconception in the industry is like that your value is solely on the platform, like on your audience. And we raised our prices not too long ago based on the sole fact that we were like, we don't want to bank on people like getting multiple platforms. Like what number would feel good for just making the video? Because quite honestly, the value, the work is the same whether we post it on one platform or three. So for us, we just

decided that that needed to be higher because our time is worth it.

Yeah. And there is some, the trial and error that I heard Victoria kind of skip over quickly that's so important was the process in which we partner with clients. And we had to learn that the hard way sometimes. So when she talked about like, you know, getting the content that they need and want and what their vision is, and then we write a script, they review it and they say, yes, that's their agreement. And then we go on to the next part and then we film it and then they say yes. And then we post it. You know, we, I think earlier on, we got into a couple of different situations where

you know, after we would record the, but can you switch that word? And I'm like, okay, I guess, you know, but it just took a little bit of tweaking and trying. And then now we realize, wait a second, we have control over like the value that we bring to this process. And we come in with a set process. And you know, I think it helps everything just run smoother, just with a little, little bit of experience under about.

Uh-huh.

Rhona Pierce (17:09.438)
And I know from my experience that brands like numbers. Some of them do. Like what metrics do you use to justify your rate?

Yeah, that's a great question. So, I I mentioned engagement rate earlier. That is a big one. One that I hadn't considered early on that I think people should consider is just your total views or if we're talking LinkedIn impressions, like monthly. I added that to our media kit, probably, you know, as recent as maybe six months or a year, pretty recent, maybe a year ago. And I had one thing I also recommend.

is that there are other creators in the space, I will say us included, like that are happy to talk about these things more in detail. There is not enough transparency in this space specifically. I think it was brand flakes on TikTok went viral recently for sharing like his income from influence from his influencer career and people were shocked. So what's scary to me, it's like, if you're that shocked, then clearly you are being underpaid, right? If you're so.

you know, the goal is to bring everybody up together. And so for us, it's just engagement rate is a big one. Total viewers. I snagged that a wonderful partner that we were working with and exchanging information with another fellow influencer shared that with us. And I was like, I'm going to steal that from her rate kit. So getting out there and having those conversations to you can also sort of steal those little components. So engagement rate, total followers, we do post, we have our demographics and our locations for where people are, because that is

important. have like some European clients that you know they want to they want to know what the audience is like there versus the US etc. So those are the main ones. Our follower count is of course always on there but I feel like follower count I don't know do you feel like follower count is mattering mattering less and less because I'm wondering about that lately. I'm not sure.

Rhona Pierce (19:06.382)
I do. mean, I've only had, I just hit 10,000 followers like last week or something like that. And I've only had one brand say like, no, we're not partnering with you. It was funny. They reached out to me and then when I gave them my rates, they're like, oh no, since you have less than 10,000 followers, we thought it would be free. was like, I've been monetizing since I've got like a thousand followers. Like, no, yeah.

But I think it matters less. Most of the brands like I think I have an approach similar to yours and I'll know more. But it's really a partnership that I want. I don't want to do one post. I rarely do one post deals. And it's more like we're talking about the value that we give to each other. Yeah. So they don't care about the followers. They care about who's following me. Like my media kit has the names of the companies of my followers. So it's like I have.

people at these companies, these big companies. So then they know if they're targeting people at those companies, they're like, yeah. So it's it hardly ever gets down to like follower

Yeah, okay, I agree. I've been, know, Gary V's been going off on some things saying followers don't matter. And I've just been hearing it and got me thinking, I'm like, you know what, do think, you know, quality for sure for us, the quality of the content is where we focus. And you mentioned the dopamine hit earlier. We've definitely fallen into that cycle. And especially when a brand is paying you, I do feel a really high level of accountability and responsibility for delivering for them.

And it can be a bummer when you don't, but also it's not in our control. As long as we know the quality of the content was high, that is what we're being paid to do and that's where we try to focus. Because otherwise if you get caught up in the followers or in the likes or in the comments and all of that, at the end of the day, I think it's just a losing battle, because you're never gonna come up rare.

Rhona Pierce (21:04.566)
I love that. used to stress so much at the beginning. Like I would post something, I would clear out like two hours of my day to be engaging, to text my friends, please. My friends in the industry, like, please, can you comment on this post? Can you share it? Can you like it? Now it's like, look, I am confident in my production value that's really, I think most companies.

work with me because of that. happen to own a video content agency, so I have a nice team behind me editing and stuff. And I think that's really what people like. And I guess me and stuff like that. like they really like the production quality. So as long as it fits my standards, and I would give this to any of my clients, I'm happy. How it performs really is not something that I can control. And I love that you mentioned

Yeah.

For sure.

talking to other creators in our in about brand deals. think that's something so important. And I'm also very open. People like if you check my DMs, people will be like, how much do they pay you for that thing? Or people saw me. It was funny at Transform. I was with a brand doing street interviews and stuff like that. And other creators would ask me, how much did they pay you? And I was like, XM. And this is how I structured the deal. And this is how it happened. It's like, because

Lorna Erickson (22:18.638)
Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (22:24.158)
I believe that there's enough for everyone, but there's so many people like that when you don't talk about these things, that's when brands can really like underpay people. Want the information to be out there so that everyone can get paid what they should be getting paid.

Totally.

Yep. Yeah, you can learn. You can learn a lot from seeing and talking to other people. And we're very open as well. And I've created and, you know, I haven't quite posted directly content about it, but it's something that's on my mind, too, about posting. feels a little meta to like post about your posting. But I know a lot of people have seen people do it and I know it hits. So it's something like hits home with people. But we have those one on one conversations.

in person in DMs to your point. Like that's something absolutely and I'm that annoying person that will email and ask like I'm that person that's like, hey, so for people looking to get into this or considering this, like don't be shy. Like every time I've asked a fellow creator a question, they have always answered it. And sometimes I get a little more than I bargained for. I remember following up with one creator and you know, saying, hey, I'm just trying to get in with this brand and I named the brand.

And they said, you asked this person, is this your contact? If not, use it, just don't tell them you got it for me. And I'm like, yes. And we ended up getting a brand deal with that company. So just asking the question ended up getting us, I believe actually that deal was an $18,000 deal just from asking that question. without asking, we would be $18,000 less in revenue. So simple, simple thing.

Lorna Erickson (24:03.01)
Right. It pays to ask and it pays to pay it forward. Exactly. So we're excited to share that information as well.

Yeah, and I think in our space, people are pretty open. Anytime I've asked, I've got a number, like no questions asked. Sure. Do you want to jump on? I've got people jump on a call with me to tell me like before I pitch a brand to tell me how they pitch them, what they said, how, what it worked. And I was like, this is amazing. Like no one gives you this information. Shout out to maybe I shouldn't shout him out because brands wouldn't want to say that, but shout out to him. He knows who he is.

amazing, amazing help. Yeah, that's all.

glad to hear that you're having that experience too. I'm glad it's not just us, you know, it's like, yeah.

Quick break. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast, but don't know where to begin, I've got something for you. I'm letting woman in TA, HR, or employer brand take over the Workfluencer podcast for one episode.

Lorna Erickson (24:58.222)
I am so excited to be able to do a podcast takeover.

And I'm joining Rona Pierce today as a guest host. Rona is the creator of the Workfluencer podcast. You get a behind the scenes look at how I plan and produce everything. I handle all the editing and you walk away with a fully edited episode, social clips, and the audio to launch your own pod if you want. If that sounds like your kind of test drive, head over to workfluencerpodcast.com to apply.

So you're educating on a serious topic, right? Interviews, they affect real people's livelihoods. But you're also making lighthearted, meme-worthy, funny content and working with sponsors. What's been the hardest part of balancing influence with integrity?

Yeah, it is funny sometimes because people are like, aren't you making fun of your potential clients? And I'm like, well, it sounds that way. But we have a character called that interviewer. And that interviewer, the true that interviewer would never be our client, right? They're the ones that are resistant to change that will always live in the status quo, that will know illegal interview questions and ask them anyway. So you better believe that is going to be my punching bag in my videos because it's like,

You know, it's funny. But the people who are like, wait a second, I do ask that question that that interviewer just asked in that skit. I should probably learn not to do that. You know, and like those are the people, the curious ones, the ones that recognize themselves and like want to make change. Those are our clients. Those are the ones that are eager and we're excited to help. So it is a little bit of a fine line. But what we've noticed is that the content really

Lorna Erickson (26:45.282)
does resonate, because I think that everyone's been a candidate at some point. Not everyone's been an interviewer, but it resonates to one of those two audiences no matter what.

Mm-hmm. It really does. And what's interesting, I was, Lauren and I were talking about this earlier, like, we've known each other for over 12 years. So this business partnership is not like, we're also best friends. We're very close. We know each other's families. So we're very close to each other. And I've gotten to see this piece and something I pride ourselves on is like the ability to call people out and calling them in, right? Like at the same time, like, and Lauren has done that in our whole, all the trainings that I've witnessed that she's done, like she'll walk into the room and

she will call you out, but she's also going to invite you in to like make the changes that you need to make. a little bit of that is to get you to laugh at yourself, too. Like this, you know, like if you're watching these videos, if you're educating yourself, you're our people. Like we want you there. So, you know, it's it's a unique thing and it's a line that we tow. And I would say that what makes us feel good as well, we're not focused on the candidates like that's not who we're speaking to directly. What we're doing

is to benefit them. We want to make their experience better because the power dynamics are so out of whack and the more we can do to bring people and showcase a light on it being a two-way street and that interviewing should be both ways, we know that that makes candidates feel all warm and fuzzy too. So that makes us happy.

And I like that you, you like say it like if these people don't like this content, like these aren't our people, right? And, and I'm asking this because when you talk to brands, I think you have to be very clear on who you're talking to and how, and there, there are brands that will try to tell you to do it differently. walk me through your,

Rhona Pierce (28:44.462)
process for qualifying like a brand that is a true partner that someone that you would go with.

Yeah, sure. That's a really, I love that you're bringing up this topic because we certainly have had really juicy deals that have come our way that are products that don't align to either what we believe in or to our audience, right? And you have to walk away from those. So I would say like the first step is always a check on is this company aligned to us and to our audience, right? Like do they align? I would say one other sort of check, I guess, would say like,

Off the bat, we gotta know that there's a budget and that we're somewhat aligned in price. Because all too often, you go too far down the path and then you realize you're so far apart and the deal falls apart. So don't be afraid. What we do is we hit that kinda early. You might get my rate card right off the bat. I want you to know. And that might disqualify me from some things, but to be honest, it will save me time. And I've experienced that, so that's another qualifier that we have.

And also the deal points. I'm not going to lie to you, the deal and Lorna knows. We were burned early on by the word perpetuity. This is a warning to everyone listening. If a deal has that word in it, walk away or have it stricken. Do not sign it. Do not. So, you know, we look for keywords. We have certain things that we've learned over time and the deal points are critical. Right. So our image

our likeness, all of that has a value. And so if those deal points don't align, unfortunately, again, like we're not gonna give that name and likeness to a brand for any extended period of time. And those are really the main filters that we put every everything through. Did I miss anything Lorna from your perspective?

Lorna Erickson (30:36.716)
The only thing like that's definitely how Victoria works through it. Whenever she tells me like, I'm super excited about this brand. And I immediately have to pass it through like my creative brain. Like, can I make this funny and work with our content? You know, can I can this work? So that's the only other thing I would add in there is like, does this sound like fun? Can I make it work? You know, like, can I not fall asleep? Because I'm so excited about creating a skit for this company. And when it's it's a yes, I'm like,

then let's go, you know, and we can jump in with full joy.

I have one other hot take here. will say, this is not a make or break, but I don't know, Rhonda, if you've had experiences with agencies versus in-house marketing teams, but that also can provide, like, it is sometimes speed for us. So if somebody's, if I have two companies that are in the same industry that we're talking with, and one is moving quicker and much more responsive, so speaking to all the brands out there, that will win out.

because the relationship and the communication between us and the brand is critical. We've had deals where we're not hearing back, we're not getting feedback, and so it's just dragging and dragging and dragging, and that is not ideal. you know, from a communication standpoint and from a relationship standpoint, that marketing team, whether it be agency or in-house that we're working with, does impact what deals we take and not take, for sure.

Yeah, 100%. And it's something it's funny because I would talk to my team, you know, when people are like reaching out and it's like, Hey, this brand wants to do this type of video. Is this something that we could do? Like, what's the work? And when I'm not getting answers back quickly, and then my team's all excited about it. And I'm like, no, I'm not working with that brand because if it's taking them weeks to get back to me on just a concept of yes, I can do this, or what do you think about this?

Rhona Pierce (32:25.57)
we're not going far down that path because imagine when I send them a script or when I like it's just I know it's not going to

Yeah.

That reminds me of your series, Lorna, the accidental job preview. So we have a viral series where like you kind of through the initial interview process, you get an idea of what what decisions are like at the company. And this is that this is marketing's version of that. If you're seeing spot on that the communication is lacking, similar. That is a dead look down the path of what things are going to be like. So if you're OK with that, proceed. And if you're not, well, then you know to to move on.

Yeah, for sure. Have you ever had any brands, because I know you bring them in on the creative process with you. I don't do as much as you guys do. Have you ever had any of them try to be like, no, we don't want this to be funny or anything like that. Like after you've decided to work, they now decided they want to be totally serious and totally different from what you do.

can't think of any. Can you, Lorna?

Lorna Erickson (33:27.116)
I can't. I think, I mean, most of the time, if Victoria has gotten them to that point, it's because they already like us, you know, and they know what our content is. You know, I think that sometimes the only thing I can think of is that if I'll write out a complete script and Victoria will send it over, they'll send back some edits where I'm just like, I have to say what, how? that, it's like, it's not my voice. doesn't, like that one sentence doesn't feel like my voice. And I feel like I'm like,

I'm barely spitting it out correctly. Like that's, if that's the worst of it, it's not bad at all. You know, it's like I can do it here and there, but luckily they know, they know what they're getting when they're working with us. does anything for you?

was just gonna say, think we do a good job too of like, I wouldn't say it's pushback, but more so like, hey, like I hear you about this edit. Here's our recommendation, because we think it's gonna resonate better in our voice and our audience. And 9.9 times out of 10, the brand wants the video to do well with your audience. So if they're hearing that from you, they're gonna be like, okay, you know. So I do find too that we've worked with like a variety of brands, some that are less experienced with influencers and some that are more.

I think we've done a really good job balancing that where we're pretty upfront with our concepts. And so when they hear our concept, oftentimes we're basing it off of a very popular series that we have, right? And just we're working it into our normal content and we're upfront with about that from the jump. Like they know that we're not creating a totally new concept typically for you. Oftentimes we're working it into what's already worked because that's organic. That's gonna get eyeballs on it just from.

from us posting it in that category. So being upfront and communicating about what your intention is and what the concept is and being descriptive. I think sometimes you can be scared to like share your concept like, we share too much. Like, what if they take this to someone else? If it's in your voice, it's not gonna matter. we have seen actually, this is a fun story. Lorna had created a wonderful concept for a partner early on and we actually saw them duplicate it with other influencers.

Victoria Gates (35:38.282)
And the difference in how it resonated and what it was, and I don't blame the brand for doing it because it was an amazing concept, but it was just kind of funny to see other influencers literally doing the exact same thing she was. And, you know, they paid for the concept, so it's fine. They did nothing wrong, but it was just it didn't hit the same because it wasn't coming from the person who originated it. So we're not fearful to share upfront exactly what our intention is and what that concept will look like. So I think that's just why we haven't maybe gotten there, gotten into any trouble.

It's so smart how you guys do it as far as like integrating it into series that you already do and content that you've already proven that works. And I think that's probably why brands like are more receptive to it because you're telling them from your expertise from like, here's the proof. This is what works and integrating it there. That's a very smart thing. It's like, I'm taking notes. I'm like,

Me too, when you were talking about the companies, I'm like, this is so smart. So we're getting a good exchange here.

So what's like the biggest mistake you see other corporate influencers or like I like to call them workfluencers making when they approach brand partnerships?

Mmm, you know, it's hard because like we're not obviously in the room or around when they do But I'll say like when I see an advertisement from you know, a fellow workfluencer as you call them I love that term You know if it feels unnatural or it feels like something that they wouldn't use

Victoria Gates (37:15.434)
That's the biggest one to me. And it can be, I mentioned, it's tempting to take deals for the money and to do things especially early on. But at the end of the day, long-term, that's not sustainable and your audience, it's just gonna hurt you further. being as natural as you can with it. I think one area of opportunity, right? Meaning this isn't something people do that's wrong, but I think we're missing opportunities is by posting content.

and tagging brands or things that you like in the content before you have a brand deal, right? So I remember we did a post about Glassdoor way back and we tagged them in the caption. Like we didn't have a brand deal with them, but we loved what they were doing at the time with whatever they had. And we just tagged them and that ended up opening a door with them at a certain point throughout that, you know? So it's something that it's like, if you're not doing that and not capitalizing on that opportunity, I think you're just missing out.

because that's a more organic way to fit in.

I like how you gave a little preview to the question I'm going to ask next. like for someone listening who has expertise in an audience, but they've never done a brand partnership, like what are the first three tactical steps you think they should take this week?

Okay, so I'm a person, I'm a business person. I've never, have I posted before?

Rhona Pierce (38:43.158)
Yeah, yeah, you have an audience and everything. You're ready for that. Like, okay, I'm ready for a brand partnership. What's the first three things you should do?

week. Start doing some research. So I look at other influencers who are in my industry or space and I see what brands they've partnered with in the past six months, let's say, right? So that's a lot of times how I see, okay, this brand is spending money on influencers. They might have more opportunity. So that's step one. Step two is narrowing that list to align to your right. Like you're making a general list and then you're narrowing it down to what aligns to your values and your business. And then

Three, don't overthink it, send a DM. Like honestly, send the DM, do it this week. Literally, most of our brand deals have come from just me stalking people. like, I did not want to be in sales. I had declined many sales opportunities in my life. It is not what I want to do. So just know that cold calling is my nightmare, yet I am the one reaching out to these brands. I DM them, I look them up on LinkedIn, I message them on LinkedIn.

I'm finding emails, I'm asking my fellow influencers for names and emails if they have them. So that would be my three steps right there. And I would do it, it seems like it would be a lot, but realistically, if you just look at, pick five influencers, write down the brands, narrow it down and send a DM per brand, like you're off to the races.

And I have a follow up question to that because you can tell that Victoria runs that side of the business hard. Like he was running it and I'm so impressed. So what does that DM sound like? Just for people that are like, what do you put in that to kick off the conversation?

Victoria Gates (40:26.026)
Yeah, I'm so glad you asked. So my formula and I would love to hear Ronas too, like my formula for outreach is really like you need to appeal to them, but also show your value in a very short message. So what that looks like for us typically is like, hi, like we are a fan of your brand because of XYZ. Like you want to make them feel mushy, gushy. Like, why do I like you? And then what do we bring? So I'll usually say we have an audience here, whatever platform I'm messaging from.

and of this amount with X amount of views, monthly impressions or monthly views. We'd love to do a partnership. Like, are you interested in that? Right? Like that's a DM for me. And it's very simple. And LinkedIn, if you don't have in-mails, you know, it's gotta be really short. So I keep it as short as I can. What about you, Rona? What do you do? Are you a

love that you're asking this question because I am terrible at cold outreach. I really, what I do is kind of take my recruiter hat on and I look for adjacent people on the team and try to get intros. So I'll find someone. It's like, huh, they're very active. So I'll go to the brand's page and find the employees and see who's the most active on LinkedIn.

to the people.

Rhona Pierce (41:42.51)
because that's my platform, right? And if it's a salesperson marketing, usually it's usually sales. I befriend that person, start talking, I love this, blah, blah, blah. Hey, who does your marketing? Or who does your influencer marketing? so and so. like it's after I've done a lot of like back and forth and nurturing that thing. I need to get better at it. I'm like, I just, when you said like, just send the DM, I'm like, I have the list of people. I know who they are. I'm just going to send a DM this week and be like,

Yes!

you

It's so funny, have me recruit the, like, hardest person to recruit ever. I'll send them the in-mail. I'll do it. I like, I don't, I hate the phone, but if I have to, I'll like text them. But a brand, sometimes I'm like, I want to do this.

Yeah.

Victoria Gates (42:34.158)
We've got to treat ourselves like we're the client we're recruiting for, right? Like I'm the client, my brand is the client, expert interviewers, right, is the client, and I'm out here recruiting like partnerships for us. So switching that mentality or perspective, I love that you brought that up, because that's like a great way to think of it and to just sort of put yourself first. It's easier to think of it when you're outside of it, right, a little bit.

Yeah. And I used to have a coach who said like a conversation a day, a business coach is what keeps your, your offer or like whatever you're offering at play. And I like to do that. I like to at least have one DM a day with someone. Now, I, like I said, I'm going to change my strategy and like, instead of trying to do this whole relationship thing that takes weeks sometimes to get to then the person that I really have to build a relationship with.

I'll just start sending DMs daily to like the people I know I'm supposed to be DMing.

Right. Yeah. And it's an and. think what you do, You can do all of the things. I think it's just good to have a healthy mix. Something in our business, for our revenue streams, while social media has been a six-figure revenue stream for us, we do also focus on our online course that we offer, our consulting, right? So we have a wide breadth.

we're never gonna rely on just one of those and you should do the same with your outreach, right? And if you're trying to get into the game, casting a wide net is the way to go when you're early on. And then once you find what works, like there's plenty of DMs that go unanswered, that get rejected, that I get an automated response from, but that doesn't stop me from just continuing to send them because all it takes is one response, right?

Rhona Pierce (44:15.374)
Exactly. 100%. Anything that I haven't asked that you think listeners should know.

Hmm.

things. Yeah. then you can jump in. No, I think that one, well, we have kind of two models. Our first model is to follow the fun. And that's how we like structured our company. It's like the social media was like fun for us training me like training hiring managers is fun for me. Like, we follow the fun and that comes through and it helps your content to resonate with others. They

You know, not everyone loves my sense of humor, but a lot of people do. And not everyone is going to resonate with our information, but a lot of people do. So it's just a matter of getting started and following the aspects that feel fun or funny to you. And then the other thing is just to like figure it the F out. Because like everything is figure outable. And if you would have told Victoria three years ago, it's like, hey, by the way, you're going to know how to like...

on structure all of our brand deal partnerships, she'd be like, really? Sweet. You know, it's like, it would have been a little bit of a surprise, but she's like, she's absolutely nailing it. Like everything is figure outable. And just, you know, just try it, just jump in and try it. That's, that was what was on my mind.

Victoria Gates (45:37.44)
I love that. Yeah. It's like that that trend where it's like, who are you? And it's like, I'm you 10 minutes from now. And you're like, dang, I look good. It's like that. Like if you that's me, like yours, I'm like, wow. That's but it's so true. It's so true. Like we also were shocked, like shocked that this became such a large percentage of our business. Like last year, it was over 60 percent of our revenue came in from social media. And it's like that was a shock.

We became a media company and we didn't even know that was going to be what it is. So the only thing I would add to that is that being flexible in what you're doing and not being so stringent. think so often people set out to be like, for example, you sit out to be this specific type of person that gives this specific type of advice in this specific format of content. You're just I think you're not allowing yourself to grow and evolve. So that would just be the only thing I would add is that we have

followed the fun. We have certainly dove right in and just figured it figured everything out, but also remained flexible and communicated with each other. The one downside to a partnership is that you don't just make decisions in a vacuum in some ways, like you don't have full autonomy. And so both of you need to agree. And I think we've just found a really good rhythm of aligning that and then going in that direction as fast as we can.

So it's time for a rapid fire segment I like to call vibe or cringe and I'm gonna throw out some content trends and I want you both to answer at the same time, right? Is it a total vibe or straight-up cringe? No middle ground. No overthinking. Just whatever comes to mind first. Say it out loud and say it fast. Ready? Yes. All right. Using AI headshots for your personal brand.

cringe.

Victoria Gates (47:27.402)
wait, sorry, was it vibes or cringe? Yeah. I think it's vibes. I think they're great. Why not? Especially if you don't have the ability to pay for headshots, like why not? I've seen some good ones.

Bye.

Lorna Erickson (47:39.234)
Now she's convinced me. I feel like a little wife.

I used to be Team Cringe, by the way, and I shout out to Trent Codden. He showed me a really cool way of doing them and they look so real. Like my husband was it, he's like, when did you take that picture? I was like, yes.

He's like, okay, who you having photo shoots with if it ain't me?

Yeah.

So it's like, okay, I used to be team cringe, but now I'm like, okay, I'm vibing with.

Victoria Gates (48:05.422)
I will say, they have improved. And so I've been convinced too. was also the same. I have been cringe. So glad to have you on this side.

Totally. I'm happy to be there. Yep.

All right, next one, people filming reaction videos to other people's job search advice.

Hmm.

which is nice, vibes. I think it's support, vibes.

Rhona Pierce (48:28.563)
All right. All right. Commenting this under your own post from your business page.

It's cringe! It's so cr-

Yeah, just made my face like scrunch up, so cringe. And I honestly can't believe that we've, Victoria and I have vibed so much on these, first of all, because Victoria is the one that keeps me cool and like hip and with it. So like, I'm like, need to hear what Victoria says first.

Next one, companies hiring content creators as full-time office influencers.

Mmm!

Victoria Gates (49:05.624)
This one I don't have. I need an example.

I don't need

There's actually a company a few months ago, and they did this whole article on LinkedIn where they had an office influencer. The person's job was literally to document everything, follow people around and create content on behalf of the company.

That's a little cringe they're following people around, so I'm going to say cringe. I don't like that. I don't want to be followed around in my job.

Yeah, I can see that. It's just weird. I've never heard of it before, so we'll say cringe.

Rhona Pierce (49:38.2)
Yeah, I know. I'm on the fence about it. It depends on how it's done. And also, are you paying them the same they would be paid as an influencer? Right.

They're probably not being paid for their output. They're probably being paid hourly. So yeah, it can only be vibes if you're paying them a very good amount.

All right, next, last one, unpopular opinion posts that are actually very popular opinions.

Cringe clickbait.

I saw the facial expression. like, yes. soon as I say, come on.

Victoria Gates (50:14.412)
Like, no, don't. And it's like with the dramatics of, I have an unpopular opinion. And so we're all interested. Like, thank you for that. You got me excited. And then you just.

All right, if you had to add one to the list, something you've seen lately that you're either so over or like secretly love, what would it be?

Victoria Gates (50:37.496)
Hold on, it's coming to me.

We needed to come to Victoria.

I mean, and I've seen so many people mock this on LinkedIn, but LinkedIn is a special animal, you know, for for socials and cringe or vibes like people finding a way to relate every personal experience back to sales. Like it's it's it's an epidemic and people need help.

You did not learn anything about B2B sales from walking out to your mailbox.

I can't. The gymnastics people do to draw connections. Sometimes it's too much for me.

Lorna Erickson (51:24.558)
cold metal.

Amazing. So I've really enjoyed our conversation. How can listeners connect with you?

Yes, well, you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at expertinterviewers. can follow Lorna on LinkedIn, Lorna Erickson. She posts some fun content there and we have a good time. That's the best way. And if you just want to say hi or inquire about, you know, anything, you could just email us at hello at expertinterviewers.com. So check it out.

Amazing. Thanks so much for being on the show.

Thanks, we had so much fun. Thanks for this conversation, Rona.

Rhona Pierce (51:57.902)
Thanks so much for listening. you're enjoying the Workfluencer pod, share it with someone who's changing how we talk about work or who should be. And hey, if this episode gave you ideas or inspiration, leave us a five-star review. Reviews help other listeners find us. And honestly, it makes my day. Workfluencer is produced by Perceptible Studios. Learn more about how we can help you use video to attract, engage, and retain qualified talent at perceptiblestudios.com.

Thanks for listening and I'll chat with you next week.