How to Grow on LinkedIn Without Quitting Your 9–5, with Bonnie Dilber

Bonnie Dilber (00:00)
I don't try to make money off of my audience because I will make money from brands. When I used to promote products that were more job seeker facing, I would often try to have some really good valuable advice in the post. But some companies are like, really just wanted to be about our product. I am a recruiting manager for a software company called Zapier. And then I also am a content creator. And so I have content on.

LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram, I have a newsletter. I feel like I just have all the things going on.

Rhona Pierce (00:32)
Have you ever felt the pressure to turn this into like a full-time business?

Bonnie Dilber (00:36)
It's so much to handle. You can a set of things. You can probably make so much money when you have such an audience sitting there. There's probably more money, more flexibility, more whatever out there. You see all the things certain people are doing and are like, no, I could be that too. But I really like having a full-time job.

Rhona Pierce (00:59)
Welcome everyone to the Workfluencer podcast. Today I'm chatting with Bonnie Dilber about what it really looks like to grow a massive platform while holding down a full-time job and how to do it without losing your credibility or your mind. Bonnie, thanks so much for being here today.

Bonnie Dilber (01:18)
Thanks for having me. Let's see. feel like the losing your mind is questionable.

Rhona Pierce (01:24)
So for folks who aren't familiar with you, which I don't know who wouldn't be, can you give us like the 30 second elevator pitch?

Bonnie Dilber (01:32)
Yeah. So my full-time job, I am a recruiting manager for a software company called Zapier. And then I also am a content creator. And so I have content on LinkedIn, TikTok, Instagram. I have a newsletter. I feel like I just have all the things going on.

Rhona Pierce (01:51)
Amazing. And I know you as someone who's built like a massive following in the recruiting and career space. But let's start a little with your story. Like how did you end up where you are today?

Bonnie Dilber (02:03)
Yeah, good question. It's been like a little bit of a whining journey, which I think a lot of people's careers have like different arcs, but ⁓ I found recruiting a little like further into my career. I started off as a teacher actually, and then was kind of in that education space for a long time, ⁓ where I just kind of moved into teacher development and then was like kind of running a nonprofit program that trained teachers and supported ⁓ teachers working in ⁓

under-resourced communities around the country. And so, was really in that side of things. And the thing I always loved was the hiring part and getting to like build my team. ⁓ And so, when I would kind of finally reach the point where I was like, I'm ready to try something new, ⁓ I was like, I always love recruiting. Like, why don't I just try to do something that's like full-time and recruiting? And so, I ended up moving over to a school district ⁓ where I...

was running their recruiting team. had never worked in recruiting, but anyway, they offered me the job and I was like, okay, sure. So got really had to like drink from a fire hose there on the recruiting side of things. And then, yes, I've been there for like the past decade and back in, you I worked for the school system. I did some like different consulting with small ⁓ schools and nonprofits. And then, ⁓

worked with a recruiting team for a nonprofit called Teach for America for a couple of years and then felt like my whole career had been in that space and I'd always wanted to work in tech and back in 2021, a lot of tech was blowing up, everyone was hiring. I was seeing a lot of my friends in education make the move into tech at that point and so I thought, you know what, like, let me give this a try too and was lucky to have an opportunity with Zapier. So I've been here ever since and then the content piece kind of...

evolved, I think it sort of connects maybe like that teacher's side or the education side and getting to kind of like educate or share more about the work I'm doing. But yeah, just kind of like emerged from that over the last couple years.

Rhona Pierce (04:07)
Cool, like what gave you the idea? Like what prompted like, I should start creating content.

Bonnie Dilber (04:13)
So I felt like very out of my element when I made the transition to tech, honestly, because in education, I was super well-networked. There were Teach for America alumni everywhere. And you were just responsive to one another. And so it kind of felt like I knew everyone. If I was hiring for something, I knew exactly who to ask and get referrals from and just could post on social media and get lots of.

of people applying to our roles and things like that. And then I moved into tech and I had no networks in the space. So I was working, I was hiring for a new type of roles. ⁓ I didn't really know much about the industry, just kind of fell out of my element. So honestly, that was what prompted me. I felt like I needed to change what my network looked like. So I would get responses to my in-mails and get introductions to the right people and that kind of thing. And so that was actually what prompted me to start posting on LinkedIn.

And then I just started getting like positive feedback from people and people liking my posts or sharing them or, you know, people suddenly like getting all these connection requests and all of that. So the more that that kind of happened, then you kind of get this positive feedback loop and I'm like, oh, that's fun. I want to do that somewhere. So yeah.

Rhona Pierce (05:26)
For sure.

What's it like showing up online like as Bonnie the creator while also being like Bonnie the manager, the recruiter, the employee, like are those personas ever intention?

Bonnie Dilber (05:38)
I

think it definitely can be, and I've probably had a few times where honestly it has been, or where maybe something I've said online might rub someone I work with the wrong way or something, or might feel like, wait, could that be perceived as ⁓ an opinion or stance of my employer versus me as an individual? You can say all opinions are my own, all you want, but people don't read it that way.

So I have had a small number of instances, I would say, around that. I do, I mean, the thing I value as a person is authenticity. So 98 % of the time, how I show up online is honestly how I show up in my real life and how people see me at work. And so I think it's a lot easier when you do have that authenticity. some creators where I'm like, gosh, some of the things that you...

kind of like publicly maybe talk about or how you present yourself could actually really be at odds with a lot of employers and could negatively impact you there or those sorts of things or people who maybe like you don't work for a remote company but if all your content is like go remote work, return to office initiatives suck. Like if you're publicly saying that but you're actually working for a company in office.

that's going to be a tension. It might make your company kind of raise their eyebrows. So I think you have to kind of think about that. And there are certain topics that I would say I've kind of tried to scale back from talking about because I want to make sure that they don't ⁓ get perceived as something that my employer would think because maybe my personal opinion is different. So I think you have ⁓ to navigate that. But usually, I just try to maybe omit that versus saying something I don't believe in.

Rhona Pierce (07:28)
Be honest, you're probably coming back next week anyway. Make it official, like and subscribe. It helps other people find workfluencer and it gives me one more reason to keep doing this. How have you handled like people that you work with have thought like, ⁓ are you talking about us or anything like that?

Bonnie Dilber (07:46)
Yeah. ⁓ So any time that I share something that is like referencing a real situation, I will actually like ask the person if it's OK. Like, hey, can I, you know, could I like reference this online or could I speak to this or would you like to be tagged? Like that kind of thing. So I think honestly, that helps because I don't talk about like situations. Now, early on, I kind of did. And then one time someone kind of gave me feedback, hey, like, I don't know if you should have shared like that particular metric. Can you edit that?

And I was like, I didn't think of that because it wasn't like ⁓ an internal metric. was just like my sort of me sharing something about like a percentage of people we responded to or something that felt innocuous. But anyway, they were like, yeah, we don't normally share data. So I said, great. And so just don't share it anymore. And so sometimes there have been those learning experiences. Someone will tell me I make an edit and then it just doesn't happen again. And everyone's fine with it. It doesn't cause any long term.

Long term issues. My company also, we created social media guidelines in I think 2022, maybe 2023 sometime and I and that helped as well because I could read those and have like something to kind of reference and I do think everyone should check. actually was talking with people on our marketing team just yesterday about their presence on LinkedIn and I referenced it and they were like, wait, we have we have social media guidelines like we didn't know.

And so, yeah, it's like one of those things I think most people probably don't realize their company might have something in place that could guide what they do and don't share.

Rhona Pierce (09:19)
That's so, so helpful when a company actually has the guidelines, because then you can know upfront, like, okay, this is what I can talk about, or am I cool with these guidelines? If you're not cool, then you know, it's time to start looking for some other place where you're cool with the guidelines, because I'm not a fan of like trying to change the guidelines internally, like they're there for a reason. And you either like accept them, or

go somewhere else type of thing. What do you think about that? you like, if you saw something, would you change it? Would you try to change it?

Bonnie Dilber (09:55)
I think I would probably ask questions. And I think it depends on how big of a thing it is. If it's like, we don't ever, you know, comment on this topic, I'm probably not gonna try to change that. just makes sense, you know? If it's something like, you do not post anything on social media without getting it approved, which I have heard, I know people at companies with like that strict of a policy, then I mean, to me, there's a level there that's like, of, you know,

trying to have oversight of your, I might, I might just like kind of try through my manager to have a conversation of do we think that's serving us like, or do we think we're getting left behind because this is such a big thing, such a part of like employer brand and can give you such like access to branding like for your company, could be such a win. So I might just like kind of ask the questions and see if there's openness. Some of that stuff could also be outdated. It could be something that's been in place for 15 years.

and the world has changed. And so maybe people don't even realize it's there anymore. you know, sometimes I think it's like worth asking a question or it might be worth if you want to do something that you think is like a violation, you could ask in advance and kind of test the waters a little. ⁓ But yeah, if like you want to have a big social media presence or you want to start working with your brands and your company has a policy that like you can't make any sort of side income and, you know, promote other companies.

and you want to do that, you might have to like look elsewhere or make that like difficult choice.

Rhona Pierce (11:27)
Yeah. ⁓ So you're not afraid to speak about hiring and job searching. That's why I love your content. How do you think about like the boundaries when you're posting? Like, yeah, I'm sure your company doesn't get to the detail of like, you can't post about this, but like, especially while managing like a team, because I'm sure they look up to and like, use you as an example of what to post. Like, how do you handle that?

Bonnie Dilber (11:53)
⁓ Yeah, I mean, I try to again, like kind of lean in. I think it helps that my company has a policy of transparency. So a lot of the stuff that I've heard about like recruiting literally like you can find it on our website. Like we're not hiding our processes from people. So honestly, anytime I post something that has to do with like how my company is approaching things, I try to ⁓ just like actually reference and I'll usually drop like links in the doc in the comments or things like that. So

So I think that that helps. Or I'll try to shout out if I'm sharing an opinion on something like, my company has a commitment to responding to every applicant within seven days or someone never going more than seven days in our process without hearing from us, even if it's like a no update update. And we publicly say that. And so if I'm going to talk about ghosting candidates, then I'm going to reference like...

that policy or that sort of thing. And so I think it gives like the company a little bit of a shout out, which I also think makes your employer feel better when they feel like they're getting something out of it versus like you're just like helping yourself all the time. So I think that that helps. And I think it helps that like the way that my company approaches recruiting really aligns with how I think it should be done. There really aren't places that I'm at a super strong like tension with my employer around.

⁓ And so that helps if I were if we were doing things that I've really disagreed with then ⁓ I might I would probably have a harder time. So I think I'm kind of lucky on that front. ⁓ The other thing is I'll try to like be a little bit balanced or show empathy. I'm sharing something that may feel a little controversial like I'll acknowledge a lot of times if a company is ghosting it isn't bad recruiters. It's bad systems or bad, you know,

not having clear processes or being under resourced, those sorts of things. So I'll try to sort of put some of those pieces in so it doesn't feel overly aggressive.

Rhona Pierce (13:57)
Yeah. You also talk about things and maybe not necessarily post. I've seen a few posts, but in the comments, like you're not afraid to call people out on their BS. And I love that we need a lot more of that. ⁓

Bonnie Dilber (14:12)
I'm

Rhona Pierce (14:14)
Is there like, ⁓ have you ever had to take something down or like your company was like, Hey, Bonnie, seriously, maybe not talk about this. ⁓

Bonnie Dilber (14:24)
Yeah, not that I can think of. never taken anything down. I've made an edit on a data to go to more broad language. There's never been anything that I've been asked to take down. Maybe because people are reading everything I write.

Rhona Pierce (14:45)
And that too, has it ever like, has anything that you've commented or posted ever like severed or like impacted any of your professional relationships, even if it's not at your current employee employer?

Bonnie Dilber (15:00)
Probably, I mean, there are there's people who I think at like one point I really kind of looked up to or I thought, you know, had a lot of like really great, great thoughts on things. And then over time, I've been like, you know, gosh, I feel like you're actually pushing a false narrative or you're just trying to get views. So I like kind of back off of engaging with them. Sometimes I'll say something in comments or you're like, you know, that's not true or something like that.

I'm surprised someone with like your level of experience would say that like, you know, or can you tell me like what system you've used that actually does this thing you're claiming they do like that kind of thing? Because I think people, think you when you have an audience, like we do have some level of obligation, or I think we should take a have an obligation to like bring integrity and not like do things that are just going to get people kind of like worked up and angry without bringing perspective.

⁓ And I see that a lot in recruiting is such an easy way to do it. LinkedIn, anywhere you go, every adult works. So anyone can relate to content about the workplace and about job search. Everyone, even if they're happily employed, things are great. They're going to go through a job search. They're going to get rejected. It's such a relatable topic. And it is much easier to present an us versus them mentality. But I don't know that it serves people.

A lot of content creators are actually hurting the people they claim to be on the side of by pushing narratives that aren't actually educating them on what is really happening and are probably setting them up to show up in places like angry, defensive, like ⁓ content creators that are pushing these AI auto-appliers, which there's a couple of them. I'm like, y'all know full well people using those things are not getting hired. Y'all know full well that that thing is not actually going to work, at least for not the desirable jobs that person wants.

You know that you're doing it. Yes, you're like making a little bit of money off of this, but like, know better, right? Like, yeah.

Rhona Pierce (17:04)
Yeah, I totally get what you mean. And I love how you do it. You do it in a way that's not like because there are other people out there that are like super controversial. It's like, this is BS or whatever. You do it in a way like you ask questions kind of like what you said. It's like someone like you with all of your experience. I'm surprised that you're saying this or what system have you seen do this? Like, like I saw it the other day where you asked someone, of course, talking about the ATF bots and you asked him like,

⁓ I've used these, these and these, which one are have you used that does that? It's like, yeah, it's a nice way of telling them like, full of it. Because we know that there

Bonnie Dilber (17:43)
educate me because I don't know everything. I know a lot. I'm probably like more arrogant than I need to be about what I know. But like, I don't know at all. So please educate me. But like, don't make these claims. If you actually know, or can't prove that that exists. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (18:00)
love that you take the content creation and having like an audience seriously, especially in the type of content that we create ⁓ for, like you said, everyone's looked for a job at some point, it's a frustrating, life changing experience. ⁓ How do you make sure for your own content, that what you're writing is actually serving?

Bonnie Dilber (18:26)
Yeah. And I've like, ⁓ I think I've like moved towards this like more and more. think I probably used like talk a lot more about like the struggles in the system. But I think as I've like gone further and further and realized like, I don't know that it's actually helping people. And it's hard because a post that's like, companies just need to give people a chance, like hire someone teach them like invest in teaching people. Like that's going to do really well. People love that. That's the messaging they want. But like,

that loses sight of reality that companies don't exist to help people exist to make money. And so like that story isn't gonna get as many likes. It's not gonna be as exciting for people to read. But it is like the reality and telling people like how to try to like show up in a way that conveys their skills is probably going to be more of like, you know, doing like a service to them. So I think I've had to like kind of make that shift ⁓ myself and say like, I don't need...

likes and, you know, attention and big metrics as much as I like want to be helpful to people. And I think you kind of have to decide like what is important to you at some point. Because those two things are going to be at odds with each other. So yeah, so I don't know, I think for me, a lot of it has been just sort of being clear on my like purpose and what's important to me. I also said this before that that might change like if I lost my job.

it might change. Then my job would my priority might be like making money. And then I might have to think about like, what are the ways of showing up that will get me the most money? Hopefully, I wouldn't do that with like fully sacrificing my integrity, but maybe we'll start selling the stuff. Of course, I don't know, even though I think these like job search courses, I'm like, I don't know that these are needed. We could give that information for free. But like, maybe I would have one. I don't know.

But in my current situation, I feel like I can have like the privilege of just trying to be helpful. So I kind of try to live in there.

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And that's good segue into my next question. like your content clearly resonates. You have hundreds of thousands of followers, but you haven't jumped into like the full time content creator life. Have you ever felt the pressure to turn this into like a full time business?

Bonnie Dilber (21:29)
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I do feel like so many people are doing that and they're they have their podcasts like just which podcasts intimidate me. Like, that's so much like the production. It's it's so much to handle. And so, yeah, like sometimes I think about that because I do the math and I'm like, oh, yeah, there. If you do a set of things, you can probably make so much money when you have like such an, you know, an audience like sitting there. You can.

there is probably more money, more flexibility, more whatever out there. ⁓ also... So yeah, sometimes you kind of feel bad or you see all the things like certain people are doing and are like, why? I could be that too. ⁓ But I really like having a full-time job. I like my company. I like having the benefits, the stability. Content creation is so fleeting. I I've had months where I've made like...

$20,000, $25,000 in a month off like content and then months of zero. And that's like a level of instability or not having ⁓ PTO built in. If you're not working, like you don't get to take a vacation. So, or you're not making money, I should say. ⁓

Rhona Pierce (22:46)
So

you're not making money while you're on that vacation.

Bonnie Dilber (22:49)
Yeah. And so I think that for me, the full-time job with like this on the side makes a lot of sense. And it gives me something that I could like, ⁓ go fall back on or could like ramp up if needed. But, I don't think like the upside is enough there.

⁓ I also, when I look at the stuff that the people who are like full-time content creators, like are going to travel a lot. They're going to all of these like conferences and having to speak at all these things. And I don't necessarily like want to do that or see that as the thing I would actually enjoy. I used to travel for work and I loved that life, but like now I have a four year old. it's like one thing home. Like I don't want, you know, every other week to have to be on a plane going somewhere in order to.

you know, stay relevant or current when my job can offer that. ⁓ And I also think that some people might underestimate the role that their their job does play in supporting them as like a content creator, because I mean, all of my first really viral posts, like my whole first year, all I ever posted about was my job and or a lot of it was like my job and things we were doing here. My first like super, super viral ⁓

that got me all sorts of media coverage. that was when I was getting, I was in all these newspapers and stuff, it was cool. But it was writing about a program, like my job. And so it's one of those things where it's like, where a lot of the posts that got a lot of attention were from people ⁓ engaging with content about working at my company and being excited about that. So yeah.

So feel like I kind of, like, I don't know that I would have the audience that I have if I didn't have my job.

Rhona Pierce (24:46)
It's definitely something to like, I know when I made the move from full time to like, to full time creation. It's like, what am I going to talk about? Yeah. Because it's like, while you're working, things happen, and you get the ideas and it's like, ⁓ this sparks something. And I was actually talking, I think you know, Mike pedido, who recently made the

the move to full time and we were talking about that it's like, okay, how do you stay current? How do you stay relevant type of thing? So it is something to consider. ⁓

Bonnie Dilber (25:19)
into

what I talk about is like based on what's actually happening day to day. So it's hard to talk. And I think some of the people I was kind of referencing before that I feel like out of touch for I'm like, it's been so long that you've been in the space that I don't actually think you know what what is happening like behind the scenes anymore. So yeah.

Rhona Pierce (25:38)
Exactly, exactly. So you've spoken a bit about brand deals, and I know they are a big part of the creator economy, but they can be tricky in professional spaces. Like, how do you evaluate which partnerships align with your audience and your role as a recruiter?

Bonnie Dilber (25:56)
Yeah, that's a great question. ⁓ There's certain products that I wouldn't work with if they're seen as like a competitor and on a few occasions where something's been like a question mark for me, I've run it by like our, like my manager ⁓ just to be sure, you know, that it wouldn't pose a conflict. Cause I don't want anyone to come back and be like, shouldn't have promoted that. So that helps.

And I also personally haven't promoted any product that my company uses for money. I'll talk about products my company uses that I haven't taken money because I just I don't actually know if it would be against our rules. Maybe I would check on that. But it feels like there's like a little bit of a weird line of making money off of something related to my job. So that feels like a little, little odd. So that's just something I haven't done. If it came up, I would definitely like run it by them.

⁓ And then, mean, outside of that, I more just think about my own sort of values. Is it something I would genuinely use if it is a product that I could theoretically use? And I always try to use it for a few weeks before I will talk about it and make sure I feel good about it. There's some that once I've gotten into it, I'm like, this is just not good. I would never use this myself, so I can't promote it. ⁓

And then if it's something that I can't like kind of reasonably like do that with, then I try to do a lot of research on, you know, like an HRS or something I've worked with or like another ATS, things like that. ⁓ Those are ones where I'll do a demo. I'll like read reviews and I'll really just try to make sure I understand it enough that I can legitimately say like, hey, I don't use this, but like, here's why it's worth a look. That sort of thing. And so, ⁓

But yeah, would say like when in doubt, talk to your employer. I also know some people that work for companies that do not allow them to promote anything. And so I think it's really, really important if that's the space people want to be in that they're actually talking to their

Rhona Pierce (28:02)
I like your approach. I actually take a similar approach. So I used to work in recruiting operations, right? And I used to buy software, like all types of recruiting software for the companies I was working for. So when I'm approached for a brand deal, I kind of take the same thing. like, okay, we need a demo. It's like, I just think if I were buying this for a company, would I actually buy it? Would I have my team use this? And if I would.

If I would never have a team that I let use that software, I'm not talking about it. And some, like most HR tech companies are very receptive to that, but some are kind of like, wait, why do you need a demo? Why do you need? like, have an instance, every ATS that I've ever promoted or anything, like I still have an instance where I can log in and I can like go and test things, say, yeah, this can be done here. It's important. think it. ⁓

I think you lose trust with people if you just start promoting whatever and it's like, wait, wasn't she promoting this the other day? That's total opposite of this.

Bonnie Dilber (29:09)
Yeah, I try to avoid competitors too. And I've sometimes had situations where I'm like, I'm talking about this one. And now you do the exact same thing. Is this going to be weird? ⁓ And so I'll typically try to wrap up working with one company, give it some time and then be like, okay, now it's kind of like an exclusivity thing or make sure I take a very different angle and talking about the product, that sort of thing.

⁓ so that it doesn't feel like these two things are at odds with each other. ⁓ and also to companies, cause at some point I'm like, if they see, okay, like she's promoted for other things in this space, then you know, they, they may not want to be just like another one on the list because they're going to realize like your audience probably just moves past it because you're talking about just whatever random product, ⁓ or

Yeah, just like a different random product.

Rhona Pierce (30:08)
How has your audience taken to your brand or your promoted posts? Because some people really don't like when a creator starts promoting things.

Bonnie Dilber (30:19)
Totally. Yeah. It's hit or miss. And the algorithms have changed so much too. When I first started, a lot of them would do really well, honestly. And I think it kind of depends on also the goals of the company because when I used to promote products that were more job seeker facing, I would often try to have some really good valuable advice in the post.

even if you didn't care about the product, you were going to get something out of the post and find it useful. And so I tried to have it still be a valuable post. But some companies are like, we really just want it to be about our product. those tend not to do as well. They feel like an ad. But some companies are OK with that because that's going to drive more conversions for them. And the right people will probably stick around for that. And so those don't do as well.

I don't feel like I've had too much pushback or criticism about it, honestly. And I think most people kind of understand if you're doing a bunch of your content creator at some point, you want to make money somehow. And something I'll tell people is I don't try to make money off of my audience because, you know, but I will make money from brands. So hopefully, you'll keep around for that.

Rhona Pierce (31:46)
That's an amazing approach. It's a similar approach that I take because I think first, very first time I did a brand deal. Also, I had like less than a thousand followers with my first brand deal. So like people notice.

Bonnie Dilber (32:00)
dollars when I did my first one. So, you know, very long time, but ⁓

Rhona Pierce (32:04)
I mean they reached out to me

They reached out to me and I was like, sure. ⁓ But my followers immediately, because now you're that small, people noticed and it was like, you're selling out. was like, am I selling out? Or should I start selling a course to you? Exactly. $500? Or should I make money from a million dollar company?

Bonnie Dilber (32:28)
That is exactly how I feel. I'm like, all of these other people are out there doing brand deals and they're constantly trying to get money out of every person that follows them. $300 for like a one hour conversation or, you know, $2,000 course. Like, I mean, these like insane things. I'm like, I'm not doing that to y'all.

Rhona Pierce (32:47)
And I don't like to, I won't knock courses. I've had some amazing courses and everything. I think, yeah, there are good courses out there. And I think any, everyone should be able to monetize in the way that they feel that they bring value. But that's my answer to people who are like, ⁓ now you're like, sell like every post of yours is something that you're selling. It's like, I'm not selling, I'm making you aware of a product. And

like selling would be every post I'm if I'm like, now follow me and buy my $50 course or my $10 course for like, that's when you have to get into those are the creators that you see that everything they talk about is about selling because such a low price point that they need to sell it a lot to actually make money. Yeah. So someone who's listening, who's built a following in a professional space, and they're still working and

companies start reaching out to them about partnerships. What would you tell them about how to approach these opportunities?

Bonnie Dilber (33:50)
Yeah. One, I would say like, make sure you know your company's like policies and you know, if they expect you to run every brand deal by them, if there are certain products that are off limits, like that sort of thing. So I would definitely like kind of look into all of that. then ⁓ and then I mean, I would say like put into place, like do a little bit of research, like something I've told people as I did my first deal, I had like 100,000 followers, they offered me $200. I like

knew that was low, but I negotiated up to like 250 because I didn't want to ask for too much. And then people were like, you should be charging like a thousand dollars. Like, what are you doing? 200, $250. Like, you know, and so I had no idea. And so I think finding some people that can help you understand for your following, for your engagement, for your niche, like there's some fields where, you know, for like B2B stuff, it

they don't need like a huge following necessarily needs to be the right people. And that's probably why you made like a ton of sense for even with fewer than a thousand followers. They're like, it's exactly the right people. It's exactly the right topic alignment and that and probably is more credible than someone with 200,000 followers to clearly like does this all the time. So yeah, so I feel like kind of understanding like the rates and the business side of it a little bit, get a contract in place. One of, think like my second or third deal

I wasn't doing contracts for any of these. was just like, kind of word of mouth, yep, sounds good. And like someone refused to pay me and they just ghosted me actually. And it was someone that I had known for years. So I also thought that were not well, but we had worked together at a previous employer. so I was just like, they're like completely ghosting me after I did this like content for, know, ⁓ eventually I did get paid, but I like started contacting other people at the company and being like, Hey, so and so at your company, like.

you know, ghosted me and owes me this amount of money. Here's my documentation. And yeah, so you'll need to find someone to pay me. And eventually they did. But but yeah, like those sorts of things, I think happened to a lot of people early on. And I would also say like research the company because some of them will come with an email that looks really credible and they'll name drop certain people. And then if you like dig into it.

you might not actually be able to find any evidence that one of those people promoted them. They can fabricate whatever they want ⁓ or ⁓ that sort of thing. And so I really think it's important to do your research because I think there's a lot of scammy products out there.

Rhona Pierce (36:23)
Yes, yes, there is. ⁓ So you're part of this like growing wave of people that are building significant influence while working full time jobs. I like to call them workfluencers. ⁓ What do you think is driving this trend?

Bonnie Dilber (36:39)
I think a couple of things. One is like just where social media is where people are sharing so much of their lives that it probably just makes sense that with with Gen Z like kind of entering the workforce and being people who have put their whole lives on social media since they were kids, for better or worse, but they have. I think that's kind of where it got normalized, like especially during the pandemic, like the day in the lives, like all those sorts of things. ⁓ I think kind of like normalized like work on social media and then more people like

older people, myself, were like, oh, that looks fun. Let me try that too. And so, yeah, I think that was like part of it and kind of like seeing the response. And then I don't, I mean, I think like LinkedIn has kind of leaned into it as well. I mean, I think they used to call the top voices used to be called like LinkedIn influencers, weren't they?

Rhona Pierce (37:31)
Yeah,

yeah, think, I think that it was like right before I got it, they were called like LinkedIn influencers. then, you know, it was two different programs. There was top voice and there was LinkedIn influencers. And then, yeah, I remember I got top voice and then a few months later, they're like, okay, we're consolidating the programs. We're calling them the same thing and you're going to get the little blue badge on it.

Bonnie Dilber (37:55)
I didn't even know they were different. yeah, I knew that there was something like that at one point. So I feel like LinkedIn probably contributed to trying to make that a thing and have people who are employed but also who can bring thought ⁓ leadership or whatever into the space. ⁓ And then, yeah, it just feels like a natural progression. The brands were like, wait, we can capitalize on this and this platform too and use it in the same way.

consumer brands were using influencers for everything. And so I think it was just like a matter of time before brands started thinking, wait, we can sell to other, you know, other companies and yeah. And I also think with how things, the instability, I think the pandemic also kind of unlocked for people how unstable work could be. And again, kind of like opened up that door of like, I should have something else and content creations are much easier and more fun side hustle than a lot of the ones you could do.

Rhona Pierce (38:56)
Yeah, it's a lot easier than going going to a second job. I was going to say it is a second job. Like you are doing stuff, but it's a lot easier if you can do it in your house versus, okay, I finished my. Yeah, like I finished my first job. Now let me drive myself to this other place and be away from my family for even longer. So I get it. Yeah. So it's time for my favorite part of the show. ⁓ It's a segment called Plea the fifth.

So I'm going to ask you three questions. You can either answer the questions or plead the fifth, but you can only plead once. And you're not, yeah, you're not going to know the questions ahead of time. Are you ready?

Bonnie Dilber (39:38)
no, okay, I'm ready.

Rhona Pierce (39:41)
All right, what's the biggest lie on your own resume or LinkedIn profile?

Bonnie Dilber (39:47)
Interesting. Okay, I mean, this is, I'm trying to think like, I honestly don't really have lies like on, you know, anything, but there are certain things where maybe I'll have like the best case, like, you know, the best metric versus the average metric, or, you know, the largest a team was versus like the, ⁓

typical team size manage, like those sorts of things. I have also actually like changed my titles, but I've oddly changed it downwards. So it's not like inflating, but it was more because when I was trying to transition into tech, I felt like I was being held back by titles that were a little bit inflated like in a nonprofit space. So I don't know, it's not that exciting or spicy of a lie, but that kind of stuff. I have also, as I've gotten older, I'm over 40. So I've kind of hidden my age, like all the early experiences just kind of lumped in like.

previous experience and took the graduation dates off, like those sorts of things. So not really lies, but like omissions. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (40:53)
things that help you survive in the job market. second one, if you could cancel one creator and get away with it, who would it be?

Bonnie Dilber (41:05)
⁓ okay. Well, I'll probably do, my God, I can actually list a lot. have, ⁓ yeah, I've blocked quite a few of them. And so they're all like on my block list and they're all ones that like use pods. there's, ⁓ gosh, who is that guy and his wife? Alex Kmozi. ⁓ Gosh, like Cody, Cody Sanchez.

Rhona Pierce (41:29)
Yeah

Bonnie Dilber (41:35)
Like a lot of these people that I'm like, I know they're using fake things because there's a guy named Alex. I forget his last name because I had to like walk him to, but I've had their like VAs or whatever reach out to me asking like, come be in their community. We all support each other's content. I'm like, I, yeah, I don't want to be a part of that. And now, you know, the, that I have like confirmation that they are using these like false methods to boost their, their profile. I really like want nothing to do with them. So yeah.

Rhona Pierce (42:05)
Same, same. All right. Do you follow anyone purely to keep tabs on them, not because you respect their work?

Bonnie Dilber (42:14)
Yes, like I definitely do. But I don't want to. Gosh, I guess I could plead the fifth on like who? Because I want to be a sense of block. But yeah, there are definitely people where I'm like, I don't I don't like appreciate anything you are like bringing. But I'll follow along because I'm just kind of curious or I will like not follow them, but I will.

go regularly or like check out their posts and that sort of thing.

Rhona Pierce (42:48)
All right. Well, you've survived. Thank you for being game. I've really enjoyed our conversation. How can listeners connect with you?

Bonnie Dilber (42:58)
Yes. Well, I have all the different social media offers. So you can follow me on LinkedIn, TikTok or Instagram. And I do have a newsletter that's kind of career focused. It's, you know, have you on job search content, but I I try to share like kind of tips for just navigating the workplace pretty much for anyone. Resources talk a lot about, you know, how AI is impacting us at work, that sort of thing. So I highly recommend the newsletter.

Rhona Pierce (43:24)
Amazing. And I'll link all of that in the show notes. Thank you again for joining me on the pod today.

Bonnie Dilber (43:29)
Thanks so much for having me. This was fun.

Rhona Pierce (43:31)
Thanks so much for listening. If you're enjoying the Workfluencer pod, share it with someone who's changing how we talk about work or who should be. And hey, if this episode gave you ideas or inspiration, leave us a five-star review. Reviews help other listeners find us. And honestly, it makes my day. Workfluencer is produced by Perceptible Studios. Learn more about how we can help you use video to attract, engage, and retain qualified talent at perceptiblestudios.com. Thanks for listening.

and I'll chat with you next week.