Creating Content at Unleash America with Rachel Bourne & Lydia Wu

Lydia Wu (00:00)
And I looked at her and I was like, I don't think you have it in you to film at the airport. I was like, I know you want to murder me.

Rhona Pierce (00:04)
Rachel Bourne and Lydia Wu are HR content creators who collaborated on daily conference recaps at Unleash America. What they discovered about content creation is going to surprise you.

Lydia Wu (00:15)
Your brain is running on dual channels at all times. Like one channel you're absorbing the information that's happening. The other channels are going like, is that going to make a good B roll? How do I translate this into content?

Rachel Bourne (00:26)
I used to watch my favorite YouTubers and they would talk about being burned out and like always on and I'd be like, ⁓ the YouTuber's tired. And it really is. It takes a lot longer to create these things.

Rhona Pierce (00:39)
But behind every polished conference recap lies a chaotic reality.

Lydia Wu (00:44)
How unaware people are of the fact that there is a camera and a film set going on.

Rachel Bourne (00:50)
and then they would like walk 10 feet and then realize what they just did. It was hilarious.

Rhona Pierce (00:55)
The reality of creating content at conferences is far from glamorous.

Lydia Wu (01:00)
So I have now concluded, you know those pop-up pylons that they carry in the back of like trucks essentially?

Rachel Bourne (01:06)
Well,

Lydia's gonna show up with tiny yellow cones.

Rhona Pierce (01:11)
conference chaos to creative solutions, Rachel and Lydia share what really goes into creating content. But there's one thing about the future of conferences that nobody's talking about. ⁓

Rachel Bourne (01:22)
think

things like these recaps are going to become more important as companies start to tighten their travel belts.

Rhona Pierce (01:29)
everyone.

I am so excited to have Lydia Wu and Rachel Bourne today on the Workfluencer podcast. How are you ladies doing today?

Lydia Wu (01:40)
Really?

Rachel Bourne (01:41)
So excited to be here.

Rhona Pierce (01:44)
I was so excited to, I met Rachel at Transform and I Lydia at Unleash. So, and I saw Rachel at Unleash again. So we're like conference creator friends now. And obviously I had been following you guys for a long time. But before we like get into it and talk about Unleash and creating content there,

How did each of you become someone who creates content in this HR and TA space? Rachel, tell us about that.

Rachel Bourne (02:21)
⁓ So my why starts in 2018 ⁓ when I started working in the digitalization space and I came into a formal acquisition role. And I started playing in AI and watching it. And as I transformed systems and I continued to play in the AI space, I started to think about

What are the implications for the talent that's doing the work today? And, you know, and it was just like, I don't know if I would, it was like, I was weighing on me from a sort of strategy standpoint and impact of the work that I was doing. So in, and I was thinking about, do I start a podcast? How do I talk about this? And I was in a corporate job at the time. So in 23, I started,

playing with social media, got a social media aggregator, Metricool, and I just like played with dummy channels and created kind of content myself so I could figure out how to do, learn all the tools. And I left my corporate job in January and I'm on a sabbatical right now. And part of that is so that I can start this podcast and

you know, there's a there's a real freedom and not being the corporate head, right, and you can kind of do and say what you want. And so I'm doing that. ⁓ And I've learned so much about the kind of content Lydia's taught me a ton. And ⁓ in fact, mean, she's way more advanced than I am. So I feel like I'm just a baby in terms of just creating the content itself. But ⁓

You know, for me, I'm doing it from a sense of purpose. I have a very small window that I feel like I can do it and I can scale it. And then my strategy is to turn it into a sustainable process for myself so I can keep the conversation going.

Rhona Pierce (04:37)
And that's really key. ⁓ What about you, Lydia?

Lydia Wu (04:42)
Oh man, I definitely did not think it through as thoroughly as Rachel did. That I will assure you. So my sort of on-camera thing really started by accident probably like back in 2019. If you go back to my earlier interviews, I swear if anybody ever needs like a cringe cure for when they're cringing about themselves, please search Lydia's videos back in like 2018 or 19 because I'm sure you will be cringing for me on my behalf.

But whoops, think that out loud was actually born out of a moment of frustration and a need for what I call like public therapy, if you will. So what happened was that at that point in time, I was running a pretty big purchasing portfolio for HR technology across Panasonic and you get a lot of vendor calls and solution provider calls. And that's totally normal because code outreach is still a thing back then. And I think it was like maybe the hundredth, two hundredth really, really crappy outreach call that got.

I was like, I've had it. I have totally had it because people sitting in my seat are actually looking to buy legit technology and all of you apparently haven't figured out how to sell to us just yet. So in that moment of frustration, I was like, okay, it's time to verbal vomit everything that I wanted to say about this space. And slowly but surely that verbal vomit turned out to be sort of a mission in a way of

bridging HR buyers who don't just want to buy the big brand label solutions, but more so looking for a more fit to purpose technology solution for their stack. And then bridging the really, really cool and really, really smart technology that maybe spent a little too much money on the product development side and ran out of budget on the marketing side. So that's where the platform is right now. And there's also a third component with the rapid rise of AI just in terms of educating HR practitioners.

to what AI actually means to their day-to-day, how they can rationally think about it without sort of panicking, running around and ⁓ more panic.

Rhona Pierce (06:42)
Yeah, I really I love both of your stories. I love how different they are. But at the end of the day, I love how like focused on and like clear you are about what you're doing. ⁓ That's that's really important as a creator. So when you started creating content, who did you imagine like on the other side of the screen? Like, has that audience changed at all? Tell me about it, Lydia.

Lydia Wu (07:10)
⁓ Nobody. So that's why when I get more followers, like shout out to Rachel, she was my number four subscriber on YouTube. ⁓ When I get more followers, I'm like, yay, it's not just my mom and my husband who cares about what I say anymore. So in a way, sometimes the way I create content is that I do it with the intention of who it goes out to. But just in terms of fine tuning it, because we're playing with YouTube, LinkedIn, and Instagram, and just multiple platform algorithms.

If I get a great, if I don't get a viewership numbers, I kind of move on because sometimes I find it really draining in the past two years of creating content that when you force yourself to focus on the follower numbers of you numbers, you're like weirdly stressing yourself out. And I realized that when I do that, my content isn't as great anymore for some reason. I don't know if you guys go through this.

Rhona Pierce (07:56)
Oh, 100%. Rachel, what about you?

Rachel Bourne (08:01)
Well, that totally resonates with me, Lydia. So I was very, I loved to plan. Most people will also tell you she'll throw that plan out the window as quickly as she made it. I do, I'm early starting. I'm very planful. I have a full, I had like a full brand document. You know, I shared it ⁓ with my husband who does my video editing and ⁓ he was like, well, that was very thorough.

And, you know, I thought I was like, I need you to see where I'm coming from. And, you know, the kind of people that I'm trying to help with my message. ⁓ I was very plainful, but I will tell you, sometimes I still noodle on it. Is it too broad? Do I need to niche down, as they say, but like get a little more specific? Because what I'm really doing is this.

HR insider that's translating the future of work to the people who are being affected. And that's a really big segment. Maybe I need to translate to HR. It's just one thing I keep noodling on. like run out, you know, even with your recent evolution. I mean, I think you always continue to question that, right?

Rhona Pierce (09:19)
Hey, have you subscribed? Let's fix that. It's the easiest way to support this show. ⁓ yeah, that's what I was gonna say 100%. It's like, don't, this time I did like listener avatars and things like that because now that I've been doing it longer, I know that when I talk to sponsors, they wanna know these things. But it evolves, it changes and it will always change. And what I tell people is like, it's literally okay.

So this questioning of stuff and like as you put content out there, I found that you start realizing like, okay, this is what's resonating. This is what people like and that really shapes it. Like, has it been the same for you guys?

Lydia Wu (10:01)
I have a third category. So this is what people resonate to. This is what people want to hear more of. And then my third category is stuff I just have to like get out there because I know people are thinking about it, but they're just not saying it out loud. So I need to give them a little platform to kind of have that conversation.

Rhona Pierce (10:18)
Yeah, that's a really good one. And I like it. And I'll add a fourth one. I like how we're doing this. I'll add a fourth one, things that I want to talk about, because everyone's always saying, only talk about what your people want and stuff like that. But it's like, if I'm going to do this full time, I have to like what I'm doing. And it got to a point. And that's really why I rebranded to Workfluencer.

I looked at it and like the episodes that were about content creation and talent attraction and things like that, which I've always been interested in, were the episodes that I was so excited and you can see the difference in the interview. And the other episodes, a lot driven by like what sponsors wanted and things like that. Although they were very interesting, amazing guests, I didn't want to do them. And like,

for me, for the content to work, has to be something that I want to do. So that's my fourth category on that one.

Rachel Bourne (11:14)
I was telling someone the other day that this is in some ways maybe the most selfish thing I am doing because like I'm just putting smart and incredible accomplished people on a podcast and I'm learning from them. ⁓ mean, it's like the best thing I could possibly do.

Lydia Wu (11:36)
Oh, totally. So last week, not last week, a couple days ago, I hosted Chris Taylor, Share Services, PayPal, super incredible and super accomplished. And I was like, yeah, you're sitting on my show for like an hour. But basically, I just got an hour worth of mentoring session from you. So we're cool.

Rhona Pierce (11:54)
That's so amazing. I like, yes, you have to like what you're doing. yeah, when I tell people, like when I try to explain, I think it was to my niece, I was trying to explain what I do. And like, she didn't necessarily understand. I was like, look, I talk to cool people and ask them questions that I want to know. And I know maybe someone else wants to know. She's like, ⁓ that's cool.

That's literally what I do. So you guys don't usually like you're both solo creators. You don't usually collaborate. What made you feel like like this was the right moment to team up for the unleash recaps?

Lydia Wu (12:32)
Do we have a cool origin story? was trying to figure out if we had a cool origin story.

Rachel Bourne (12:37)
When we so I like I remember like the first time I realized who Lydia was because I literally I was like, ⁓ I was googling it was for Burson Galileo and I wanted to see what before I bought it and she had just uploaded this video to YouTube and it was like one of the few that existed out there and she literally had three subscribers and I was like, yeah, click and subscribe.

And then we were in some other conversation. She and I are also both on a human-centered AI council ⁓ that Aptitude, Kyle Lagunas from Aptitude Research was kind of standing up. We both know him. And so there's sort of that mutual trust connection with other people that we know ⁓ outside of that. And then we met at some event, and I was like, my god, I know exactly who you are. And I was your fourth subscriber.

Lydia Wu (13:35)
transform so it wasn't

Rachel Bourne (13:37)
It was

transformed. Yeah. And so I think there was initial like, we just kind of clicked. And then, you know, I also just to be very honest, very, was at that time, especially was very uncomfortable ⁓ being on camera or on LinkedIn. And I was kind of working through the discomfort. I'm much significantly more comfortable now. But I

Like I grew up in cultures where you walk quiet and you carry a big stick. You don't kind of go out and talk about the kind of work that you're doing. But I was also had this conflict of being very mission driven and what I wanted to do. Right. So Lydia was very lovely to me. She taught me like how to make B roll. Told me how to look at the camera in different ways. And ⁓

I really appreciated that. So there was a little bit of that, like, that I've, this creator community is also extremely generous, I think. And I, know, in some of my research, I've talked to others that do not experience that. ⁓ So there was that built trust, I think, with me and Lydia of, you know, we were kind of there and helping each other. And then, you know, our communities, I think, are adjacent.

Right. We're both very kind of tech enablement, tech savvy, but our audiences aren't not exactly the same. So I think there is an easy collaboration in that lens as well. She can talk about the technology and I can translate things. Right. there's I don't know, Lydia, would you kind of say that any differently?

Lydia Wu (15:26)
I think exactly, I think it's just like the perfect blend of sort of like the different pockets of quote unquote, HR and I'm putting quotation marks around it because I don't know if a year from now we're going to call it HR still, but it's sort of like the human component of it. And like for me, it's the infrastructure component, which is like, how do you service? How do you operationalize? How do you build a tech stack and a data stack behind it?

Rhona Pierce (15:47)
And for people that don't know, I just realized people might not have seen the recap. So what are we talking about? What did you guys team up to do at Unleash?

Lydia Wu (15:57)
So basically I accidentally started this thing I think last year at HR Tech or maybe a few other conferences before that. I don't even know how this thing started. But I started offering like live daily recaps basically the next morning after the conference. So I don't wait for the entire event over. It's kind like you're coming with me for this entire experience. And apparently people love recaps. So I think there's something about FOMO that's in there.

And in those recaps, what I'm realizing, and what I started to realize was that there was a lot of technology content on my end. But when I met Rachel, was like, hang on, there could be something there because I would love to kind of just get another view and another lens on the world when it comes to what do you take away from the conference? Like, what are some of the hot topics? What are people talking about? All of that fun stuff. So basically, at the end of every Unleashed Day, essentially, while both of us were dead and exhausted, we would film

content for the recaps that then I would put in short form reels that goes out the next morning essentially from my platform. And Rachel was kind of putting together a longer form breakdown for the podcast.

Rachel Bourne (17:01)
Yeah, so we divided the work kind of that way. I also think having the two of us there, we could go to different sessions, we could kind of go to different things, so we were able to cover more. And then I think there were times I was so tired at the end of the day, I would have been like, sorry, guys, I'm gonna just go have a glass of wine and go crawl into bed, especially on like those last days where you've been extroverting for 72 hours.

You know, even as an extrovert, I'm like about to die and you know, so you can even I think you can even see us get through the long form video and we get a little slap happy. It was a lot harder for Philip to do the editing. And, you know, I mean, it was was just a hoot that way.

Lydia Wu (17:52)
Yeah, and just sort of case in point, I don't know Rachel if you remember this even, end of day three. So basically last day of Unleash, we both had a flight and everything else. We're like, you know, maybe we'll just film at the airport. And I looked at her and I was like, I don't think you have it in you to film at the airport. I was like, I know you want to murder me right now, but we're just gonna spend 20 minutes, we're gonna record real quick, and then we're gonna book it to the airport and go from there.

Rachel Bourne (18:17)
Yeah, that's exactly how it went.

Rhona Pierce (18:19)
I absolutely loved the recaps and that's why I wanted to talk to you because as someone, so as a creator, I go to these conferences too, but the last two conferences, I've been there to create content for brands. So I haven't gone to any of the talks like Unleash. I don't even know where they were happening. The only thing I saw from Unleash was the floor and the boardroom where I was doing back to back podcast episodes. So that

I loved the recaps because it's like, ⁓ this is what was happening. This is what people are talking about. That's so great. ⁓ So I think that for like people like me who are there working on something else, those are great. And for the people that aren't there, I'm sure they're like this because there's something real about your the way you're doing the recaps that isn't like how the conference itself will put it.

out right the conference is going to be like this is amazing it's perfect and it's not like you guys were like saying anything negative or anything but it was just like real like you it's like you asked a friend who went to the conference hey how was it and they're just telling you

Rachel Bourne (19:32)
And that's, think, very, like that's probably, for example, a brand part of our brand values that we just generally are trying to do in the content. Like we're not going to be as you about it and we're going to be real.

Rhona Pierce (19:46)
Was there something that people definitely didn't see that made these recaps possible or maybe impossible? ⁓

Lydia Wu (19:57)
So I think it has to be one of those funny moments. Sometimes I'm surprised and I'm sure you've gone through this as well. How unaware people are of the fact that there is a camera and the film set going on. How of traffic you would catch. People just casually walking right into the middle of your shot. Those were hilarious.

Rachel Bourne (20:09)
area

And then they would like walk 10 feet and then realize what they just did it was it was hilarious and Some people never even got it

Rhona Pierce (20:28)
That happens so many times. And also the people like, you see your friends there at conferences and they see that you're working and they come and they like wave and go like, hi, behind the camera. It's like, I don't need to be laughing right now. I'm having a serious conversation. I love my friends. I love everyone who did that. But it's a thing that happens. And also I had this one happen. I'm not gonna say at what conference.

⁓ where someone accidentally walked into the frame and then when they noticed, they walked back to say sorry. I'm like, no, let's stop this.

Lydia Wu (21:09)
So I have now concluded, you know those pop-up pylons that they carry in the back of like trucks essentially to kind of use as like road signs to say like, hey, there's a truck stop in the middle of the road. I might get a set of those and just kind of plop them all around my tripod next time just in case.

Rachel Bourne (21:26)
and tape.

Rhona Pierce (21:28)
Love it, love it.

Rachel Bourne (21:30)
This lady is gonna show up with tiny yellow cones

Lydia Wu (21:35)
Orange, I'm going for neon orange.

Rachel Bourne (21:37)
George

Rhona Pierce (21:40)
That is amazing. And if you do it, will 100 % go get some behind the scenes footage of that. Like what it takes. ⁓

Rachel Bourne (21:49)
I will say though, I think things like these recaps are going to become more important as companies start to tighten their travel belts and their development. the in-person thing, I'm actually even questioning some of the attendance levels that I'm worried that that's even showing up already.

If there are people that can share it out so that the greater HR community and others can learn from it, I do think those kind of teach back moments can be very helpful.

Rhona Pierce (22:22)
I do too. ⁓ And if you guys are comfortable, I would like to talk about that. Like what we're seeing at these conferences because, and I don't know, again, I didn't go to any of the talks, but I felt like everyone there was a vendor. At the last three conferences I've been, obviously there were people who weren't vendors there, but the majority of the people, like that's what I'm feeling. Are you guys seeing that or am I just in my little bubble of the expo floor?

Lydia Wu (22:50)
No, it's definitely not just you. So I would say even starting like middle of 23, like late 22, now kind of thinking back on all the conferences I've attended, is sort of when we start to see that weird trend. That was when the COVID money kind of ran out for everybody. We're realizing there's something happening in the economy. We couldn't quite put our finger on it yet, but the smarter CFOs are basically tightening their budget. And we know who is always a lovely first department to get the notice of, guys, tighten up.

And since then, the vendors, I think, have noticed a tightening of their go-to-market and BD cycles and the longer sales cycles they're experiencing. So they're now actively pursuing events conferences, thinking that just like before, that was going to be the magic pill that solves the entirety of the I'm now selling enough conversation for them. And that was just like a weird downward spiral cycle that we got into, I would say, for a good period of

one and a half, two years roughly, where you see the investors who put money into the vendors during the COVID era or the sort of early 2020s demanding to see an ROI that they were presented and the vendors kind of coming in and saying, crud, we've got to sell. And then we started to see the downside of that at conferences, which is like you have a lot of sellers and then the buyers are not kind of going like, okay, this is annoying. Like you're literally just coming after me for my dollars.

What about me as a person? What about what I want? What about my challenges? What about me as a human, essentially, in this space? So then they're like, okay, the buyers are pretty much kind of having the conversation like, I don't know, love these conferences. They feel way too sponsored. They feel way too salesy. So now you're seeing that balance coming into play again of the vendors kind of going like, okay, maybe that was a bit too much. So we've got to dial back. What do we do now?

And then of course, the buyers are still struggling with the, don't have money and maybe I won't have a job in the next six months phase. So I think it's just challenging for everybody. And that's probably why we're seeing that weird imbalance that's happening.

Rachel Bourne (24:49)
Well, I think you're all seeing like consolidation of decision makers as well as like, you know, so there's fewer of them, they need to send fewer. The thing I was seeing also was just more senior folks, as opposed to the new college graduate, which would commonly have had some development at these things. I'm not seeing that as much. I think it'll be interesting to kind of watch, you know, stuff that is happening through the summer.

There are also, think there's a more emerging conversational, more kind of like round table and dialogues events that have happened that I know I started engaging in ⁓ in 23. A lot of times those are invite only. And so I would like watch like rec fest or, ⁓ you know, Gartner re imagine will be an interesting one, I think, just to see kind of who shows up and where those go.

You know, think HR tech has been vendors now only for a while. But Lydia, I saw you, you're speaking of the women in. Yeah, good for you. That's great. ⁓ Like that's another, that's a really good event, but I think that would be another really interesting one to watch.

Lydia Wu (25:56)
I am speaking. Yes.

Rhona Pierce (26:07)
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I agree with both of yours assessments. And I think vendors who really want to succeed in this space are going to be the ones that are going to be doing, instead of focusing on the flashiness of their boots and stuff like that, they're going to be doing value add things. And obviously I'm not saying it because I'm a creator, but I think that the boots that I'm seeing people excited about are the ones where there's someone podcasting there.

or there's someone doing, there's an event where someone's doing like a mini talk or things like that. Like those more ⁓ intimate events are like ways that you can actually get information and value. Yes, and it's sponsored by someone. I think that's really where we're going at this with this. And I don't think the big conferences are going away. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying what we're going to see vendors displaying their and their approach.

is going to have to be different. It's going to have to be more towards like value that people are going to get other than like, oh, here's this cool plushie or there's this cool experience come and drink.

Rachel Bourne (28:00)
Yeah, I mean you can reach and and I will say you also see I think some of the big ones go a little more digital like I do And more network relationship base. So I do think like transform is a really good example the community that they are building ⁓ Is going to be pretty incredible. I think with these kind of chapters Especially with some of the decisions shurm has made, you know, I feel like They're kind of a dinosaur

And, you know, like people like Transform are going to come through and bring fresh new ideas. And they're delivering things digitally more through the year. And, you know, so so is this like in-person thing really sustainable? You know, I don't know. There's so much good about it, too.

Rhona Pierce (28:53)
think it's sustainable, but the smart brands are going to focus on the longevity of what they did and of their investment. And that really is through content. Because just investing in the experience there when you're not really going to be in front of that many people, because budgets are tighter.

Now you have to think, how do I make this investment last beyond the two to three days of the conference and evergreen long form content and even short form content, I think is really how they're going to get ⁓ that. So let's talk a little about, let's get back to our content conversation and talk a little more about the not so glamorous parts.

Was there anything surprisingly hard or frustrating about creating content at an event like this or any event?

Lydia Wu (29:50)
I can get us started. I don't think there's anything that's surprisingly hard to be honest. The challenging part and maybe the part that people don't see necessarily is your brain is running on dual channels at all times. Like one channel you're absorbing the information that's happening. The other channels are going like, is that going to make a good B roll? How do I translate this into content? Long form, short form, what are we looking at? So constantly there's two sides that are going on at any given point in time when you see us on the event floors.

Rachel Bourne (30:20)
Yeah, that's an interesting point. I think really for me, Rhona, like it's even just my biggest aha out of just like creating stuff for others to consume. You know, I used to watch like my favorite YouTubers and they would talk about being burned out and like always on and be like, ⁓ the YouTuber's tired. And it really is. It takes a lot longer to create these things. You know, and

I'm originally an architect. I'm very comfortable creating graphics and using technology and systems. But it takes a lot of time even when you have a pretty decent workflow. And I think people don't realize that.

Rhona Pierce (31:03)
And I find that the, really can't plan as much as you want. So I'm like, I go with a shot list. I went to transform with a shot list, but obviously I don't know what's happening. I can get a shot list of, I'm gonna do my establishing shots this day. This is kind of what I'm gonna say. I have no clue the setup. I don't know how they're gonna do things, where I'm gonna do it. Now that's the cool part too, because.

like I got I was with a with a videographer and we saw an escalator and we're like, my gosh, that would be a great shot. Let's do it. It was all Luke shout out to Lucas. It was his idea. I wanted to do an escalator thing. And we did mine and then he's like, What if we do this and like mine, I we never use that footage, we used his idea. So shout out to Lucas. He's amazing for for that idea. But then the rest of the stuff you can just plan like

Rachel Bourne (31:38)
shot it was great.

Rhona Pierce (32:00)
Okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna ask people this, but you don't know what's happening. And if you're gonna do a recap, it's like, there's no clue. So like you said, you're in a session and you're thinking, oh, this is so cool. I'm so interested in this. Oh my gosh, I also have to get content. Am I taking notes? Is this gonna be so it is a grind and yes, the creative burnout and the creator burnout is real. It is a thing. So has

what gear or what tools actually worked for you ⁓ as you were there and what would you definitely like? This isn't needed. I'm leaving this at home next time.

Rachel Bourne (32:41)
I totally over packed. Lydia showed up with like, you had your iPhone and a pretty slim tripod, right?

Lydia Wu (32:51)
So I feel like I've been to conferences enough to know how exhausting it can be to do like 10,000, 15,000 steps talking to people. I was like, okay, for a gear packet, I need a super lightweight tripod. I don't care if it's gonna break after the conference, that thing just need to be able to stand up, shoot, and let's move on. ⁓ I had a set of mics, because noise cancellation was super important when you have everybody shouting at you from 10 different directions. And then it was basically my iPhone, essentially, shooting in raw mode.

And that was it.

Rachel Bourne (33:22)
Yeah, your iPhone, I have an iPhone 16 Pro. You can do a lot with that. I did have a heavier duty tripod, which I did really like. And I took ⁓ the DJI Osmo Gimbal 7, which I freaking love. And, you know, it's taken me a little while to figure out how to use it all. But I think it's a really good tool. And we both have a set of the Micaminis.

And I have a Rode boom, little mini boom that I put into my iPhone, which I really like. I have a Sony ⁓ ZV-E10 that is a really great camera. I took it with me, never even pulled it out of my bag. And I was annoyed how like kind of bulky the little setup was. And my husband was like, Rachel, you need, you should take that just in case. But that's like his vibe. He takes it all.

Lydia Wu (34:20)
Yeah. ⁓

Rachel Bourne (34:21)
was

killing me.

Rhona Pierce (34:22)
As you go to more of these events, you learn ⁓ my Sony ZV. don't even remember which one I have. That thing just travels all around the world at this point and never gets used. like I'm I'm like not taking it. I'm right now I'm loving. I love that you love the the gimbal. It did me so dirty at Wreckfest that I'm never like I it in my closet when I came back here. I just it wouldn't like it was just

Rachel Bourne (34:35)
hilarious

Rhona Pierce (34:51)
having a mind of its own and then the battery. It was just like, I just hate that thing. It's in my closet. I need to try it again. But I absolutely love the DJI ⁓ Osmo Pocket 3. So small. It's so amazing. The quality. It's just, that's my go-to now with a phone. Cause also the phone, like if you're talking to someone or something spontaneous happens and you don't have it for whatever reason.

Rachel Bourne (35:03)
⁓

Rhona Pierce (35:20)
And I have a tripod. I'm actually gonna try to get an affiliate link for it. And I'm gonna link it. Cause I tell everyone about this tripod, but it fits in my purse, but it's also like expands so big that you can use it. Every time I pull it out and start making it bigger, people are like, wow, that little thing became this thing. ⁓ yeah, but gear is important.

Like, I think we all agree, less is more because you're not gonna use half of that stuff and then you're walking all around this huge conference with your back hurting with all of these things that you're carrying.

Rachel Bourne (35:55)
My back is still recovering. Seriously. I'm like, ugh.

Lydia Wu (35:59)
And I will say one more thing though. It's like practice the setup. Cause for me, the reason why I carry so little, the goal was if I can get us rolling in under 30 seconds equipment wise, we're golden. Especially if you're just grabbing someone as they're walking by you on an event floor. It's really hard to be like, give me five minutes. Let me go figure that thing out. I'll be right back with you.

Rachel Bourne (36:19)
You have a good strategy Lydia, it's true. Almost anybody will talk to you if they don't have to wait.

Rhona Pierce (36:24)
Yeah, no, that is also very, very good tip because that's super important as well. Because no one's going to wait. It's always going to be like, OK, I'll be right back. And you lost them. Oh, you're going run them back. Yeah. And they'll see someone say hi to them. They'll go do that while you're setting up. And the next thing you know, they're gone. So how has creating content changed how you consume it in general?

Rachel Bourne (36:49)
that's so interesting.

Lydia Wu (36:50)
Yes, I don't know, Rachel, if you have any thoughts on this one. But for me, I Rhona might have shared this with you via email as well. When I watch, so when I used to watch videos, I'm like, ⁓ that's a cool video. That's a cool concept, la la la. Now it's like, how did they get that B roll? Did they have to set up the camera, drive afar, and then come back and pick up the camera later? How did they know nobody was gonna run away with their camera or their equipment while they shot that B roll? It's not stuff that happens in your head subconsciously now after you start cutting videos and filming videos.

Rachel Bourne (37:21)
That's a really good one. I also have a lot of appreciation for the people who like have the engine and they publish that newsletter every Monday or every Friday or whatever. I'm like, God, I need you. I need to call and get some like workflow mentoring because I haven't figured out the consistency yet piece. And that I think is one that it's one I'm going to try and tackle here in the next month is get.

get the consistency going, the rhythm. And then I would say, I feel like you also need to really need a video editor you trust.

Rhona Pierce (38:02)
Tell me about that.

Rachel Bourne (38:04)
Well, and that's the thing. It's like, you can mess up all you want, but having someone who understands where you're coming from, what you're trying to convey, and then you don't have to go through and micromanage all of it is just a huge thing.

Lydia Wu (38:24)
I think that's actually the hardest part of finding a team in the back end that you can just dump stuff to and say like, hey, do you have this?

Rhona Pierce (38:32)
Yeah. ⁓ and as you guys know, I have I own and run a video content marketing agency. So having a team of editors like that's the most important thing. Look, any other role in the company and shout out to my team. I absolutely love them and all the roles are important. But my editors, I like anything they ever want, because finding people who like can understand.

your vibe and I work with editors on my team and like for this podcast, I'm working with a different team, not my team and just finding that person who gets you is such a valuable thing. And then having the systems, ⁓ I'm also, I do a lot of content. I've been doing this for a while, but at Unleash, I actually went there to, as a guest host,

for Adam Posner's podcast, The Pawscast. And just seeing the behind the scenes of how he runs this, he's been podcasting for years. I was like, this was amazing. was like, obviously I got paid for what I did, but I was like, I kind of would have actually done it for free if I would have known all that I was gonna learn. I've learned so much. I was talking to Adam earlier this week or last week and I...

immediately change things on my flow of my podcast that have already made me pump out episodes faster.

Rachel Bourne (40:00)
What did you, yeah, so tell me, like, what were your biggest ah-has out of that?

Rhona Pierce (40:05)
So yeah, a lot of his planning and the way that he does so I would spend a ton of time trying to figure out the topic. So it's like, okay, I want to talk to Rachel and Lydia. ⁓ but what can we talk about? And I think I want to talk about this. And I would come up with the questions and stuff like that. And when I saw Adam, he literally asked people, what are the three things that you're passionate about talking about right now? That's the prep.

people give you those three bullet points. And you guys saw that I did it here with you, with you ladies. asked mine is a little more focused because my podcast is more about content. I, but I was like, what are the three things that you are excited about or want to talk about right now? And then the prep is easier because now I don't have to come up with all of these questions and send it to people in the back and forth and stuff. It's just, these are the things that you said you wanted to talk about.

⁓ This is kind of like how I'm thinking about the episode. ⁓ And here we go. And then you don't have to send a ton of prep questions, but people still feel that they're prepped because they already know what they were wanting to talk about. That was the biggest one for me.

Rachel Bourne (41:17)
Yeah, that's a really good one. Good nuggets there, Rhona.

Rhona Pierce (41:22)
It's like all Adam. I was like when I saw it. I'm like, this is amazing. Why have I been doing it this way?

Rachel Bourne (41:30)
You know, it's funny when you just ask people, you know, I always have lessons around that too. You go in with the assumptions and yeah.

Rhona Pierce (41:42)
And you learn and yeah, shout out to Adam. is like the way he runs his podcast. Like I absolutely know why he's been so successful and why he's been able to do it for as long as he's been doing it because it's just a system and it's just like you can tell he's his stuff together. The guests can feel it. Me as a guest host, I was able to feel it like producer everything. You're just, you know, it's going to go well because it's planned and it's like,

And it's not this thing that's taking 20 million hours. It's just, this is how it works. This is what's done. And then the releasing of it's been amazing. I actually have to talk to him. want to do a full episode of us talking about that.

Rachel Bourne (42:24)
about that.

Yeah, I'd love to watch that.

Rhona Pierce (42:28)
Yeah. So, ⁓ what's next for each of you as creators? Is there like a format or idea that you guys have been itching to try? Like, what's next?

Rachel Bourne (42:41)
Well, I think Lydia and I are going to go global.

Rhona Pierce (42:44)
We got our fingers crossed.

Rachel Bourne (42:46)
There are some other things, truthfully, like internationally, we want to kind of do and like some, you know, cross border pollination of things we think, you know, the American system doesn't always have it right. And we can learn from some other regions of the world, which I think would be really interesting for both of our audiences. ⁓ I, you know, I'm personally really working on those same kind of workflows. I'm really kind of unpacking the value of like a podcast network.

That's one I talked to Lydia a whole bunch about. well, good, maybe you could do an episode on that for me too, Rhona. Because it really would be very interesting. How does the model work? What's the value to me? Is that a way that I can create my message to be more sustainable? Because if you're just starting out, this is the world's most expensive hobby in time and money.

And ⁓ so just kind of getting it more sustainable, think, is really my focus overall.

Rhona Pierce (43:55)
What about you, Lydia?

Lydia Wu (43:56)
I think on my end, it's really two projects that are coming up that makes you really excited. So number one, the I pay for it so you didn't have to feature episodes, which completely go on sponsored. I really do enjoy filming these things because I get to grill technology as I would, except this time just in public, which is kind of fun. ⁓ And then the other project that I'm working on is how can I bring technology implementation journeys to life?

in video form for everyone. So when you buy technology, it's not sort of like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtains. You actually get to see what is that implementation journey from signing of the contract all the way through to your data uploads, all the way to configuration and everything else in between. And you're looking at it from a lens of both sort of like a more senior person as well as a more junior person. So that's been like an idea that I'm noodling on trying to see if there is anyone who might be interested in working together on that because

I also understand it takes a lot of courage on the vendors and the sponsor side of it because you're basically putting your entire system and your entire platform out in the open for people to look at.

Rhona Pierce (45:04)
But I love that. ⁓ And maybe I can give you ladies an idea. ⁓ As I was thinking, I really think these recaps, if you guys want to continue doing them, should be sponsored. ⁓ I have some ideas, and we'll probably talk about that offline, of who you could potentially pitch for these things. like I was saying, sponsored ones, as long as like

sponsored content doesn't mean you have to say what the sponsor wants, right? That's my thing. Like sponsors understand that I'm not going to say like, you're the best just because they're they're sponsoring me. But also I only work with people who I believe are the best. but as of these recaps, you can definitely come from a day there's no real ⁓ thing that they can lose. It's just you giving the people that aren't there.

the recap and your name and brand is on it. So everyone wants to watch these recaps, ⁓ coming from this person. So I think that's a very sponsorable ⁓ type of content that you ladies should explore.

Rachel Bourne (46:13)
Thank you. I definitely think now that we have a proof of concept, can, you know, definitely look at that for sure. So shout out if anybody wants to sponsor us.

Rhona Pierce (46:28)
So, all right, it's time for a rapid fire segment that I like to call vibe or cringe. And it's the trends edition. So I'm throw out some content trends and I want you both to answer at the same time. Is it a total vibe or is it straight up cringe? No middle ground, no overthinking, just gut takes.

Rachel Bourne (46:51)
I knew you were gonna do this to us.

Rhona Pierce (46:55)
There's always a segment. All right, so first one, remember at the same time, ⁓ AI generated carousels with quote style thought leadership.

Lydia Wu (47:07)
my God, cringe. So cringe, burn it. Take it out back and burn it.

Rachel Bourne (47:08)
...

Rhona Pierce (47:11)
Yes, agree. This propaganda I won't be falling for and then a list of things that people are saying.

Lydia Wu (47:21)
Bye.

Rachel Bourne (47:21)
Yeah, that's just clickbait. No, French.

Rhona Pierce (47:27)
Alright, unpopular opinion posts that are actually very popular opinions.

Lydia Wu (47:34)
I'm

cringe. ⁓ Best one that I've seen on that one. Just complete side note. ⁓ unpopular opinion. HR shouldn't exist as a department anymore. It's like, I can get on a pedestal or like my little soapbox and just have a two hour debate on that topic.

Rhona Pierce (47:53)
Yeah, and it's just like the most random and ridiculous like why like who is this helping? What are you doing? This is clearly like unpopular opinion. I had nothing to post today and I want to go viral. Like just go ahead and say that. We're such haters.

Yes, yes.

Rachel Bourne (48:15)
Honestly, people are sitting at their computers thinking it. I'm sorry.

Rhona Pierce (48:19)
Yes, and we're just saying it. All right, next one. I'm not posting much lately because I'm focusing on my business posts.

Rachel Bourne (48:30)
okay with that.

Lydia Wu (48:33)
Watch.

Rachel Bourne (48:34)
But tell me what your business is and what you're doing, because that's cool.

Lydia Wu (48:38)
Yeah, exactly.

Rhona Pierce (48:39)
Like, yes, use the post for something, not just to like, to me those look like I had nothing to post and I felt like I needed to post so I'm posting and it's like, why are you bothering our feed with this? ⁓ All right, next one, crying selfie post.

Rachel Bourne (48:56)
⁓ no. Depends, you know what? Maybe it depends on the platform.

Lydia Wu (49:03)
Platform and person dependent. Like genuinely if there's a reason for it and if you need help and you're reaching out for help regardless of platform, yes absolutely a vibe. Like people are here for you. If you're doing it and going like, oh I'm so grateful, look at my business, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, like get out of my feed.

Rachel Bourne (49:21)
If you had to set up your camera in order to cry, the answer should be no.

Rhona Pierce (49:29)
Yes, love that one. Yes. If you had to set up your camera in order to cry, looking at you still remember that CEO who laid off his employees and cried on camera about it. We don't care. ⁓ Now, okay, last one. Candidate red flag posts that are just personal preferences disguised as a universal truth.

Rachel Bourne (49:55)
I think there's a lot of hate content that gets clicks and I think the whole genre is cringe.

Lydia Wu (50:05)
Yeah, I would say cringe for me as well because the amount of unconscious bias that goes into that list, like from where I come from and my contacts, I kind of take offense to that, like the lack of empathy in some of these posts.

Rhona Pierce (50:21)
Yes. Yes. it's always to me, I always get the feeling of, you realize what you're saying about yourself with this post? Like, and I'm talking about the post is like, ⁓ if your resume file name is this, that's the one this week. Or if you use a hotmail email address, or it's like, really things, you know how many resumes I've read in my life as a recruiter?

I don't even remember what the file name was, who cares?

Rachel Bourne (50:56)
Yeah, agree.

Lydia Wu (50:56)
Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (50:59)
And then I think as a response, we in this space, especially those who create content for job seekers, have a responsibility. looking for a job is one of the most vulnerable and important moments of your life. And there's enough happening already. You don't need this extra advice, quote unquote, that's not really relevant.

Lydia Wu (51:26)
And I think it goes back to what I always tell people when I used to be practicing HR, which is every decision you make, everything you put out there, livelihoods are at stake. You can't take that lightly. And I think on the content creation side as well, it's almost like livelihoods are also at stake. You can disagree with someone, you can feel whatever way you feel in your inner voice, but you still have to respect their hustle at the end of the day, even if they're hustling on a hot email address or whatever it may be.

Rhona Pierce (51:53)
Amazing. I've enjoyed this conversation so much. I knew I would. ⁓ How can listeners connect with each of you?

Rachel Bourne (52:00)
So I'm at www.theshiftshow.net and YouTube, anywhere you get podcasts, I'm going to be doing more video that just doesn't really lend itself to just audio ⁓ as well. So I'll be posting some other YouTube things ⁓ here in the near future.

Lydia Wu (52:22)
I finally have a website going. So www.whipsdidithinkthatoutloud.com, but I am also on YouTube, Instagram, and LinkedIn as well.

Rhona Pierce (52:32)
And I'll add all of those links to the show notes. Thanks again for this conversation.

Rachel Bourne (52:37)
Thank you very much.

Rhona Pierce (52:39)
Whether you're creating content in your off hours, filming recaps on five hours of sleep, or just trying to figure out your message as you go, Lydia and Rachel prove that useful doesn't have to mean perfect. If you want to catch more of their work, follow Oops! Did I Think That Out Loud? and The Shift Show. I'll drop the links in the show notes. And if you try filming a recap after this, I want to see it. Tag me, DM me, send it by carrier pigeon.

I'm serious. And don't forget to leave a five-star review. Reviews help other listeners find us. Workfluencer is produced by Perceptible Studios. Learn how we can help you show up confidently on camera at perceptiblestudios.com. I've got more episodes coming your way soon with creators, builders, and the people who are reshaping how we talk about work. Hit follow so you don't miss it. Thanks for watching and I'll chat with you next week.