Building HR's Most Subscribed Newsletter: Authentic Content Strategy with Hebba Youssef

Hebba Youssef (00:00)
Yeah, all the time. All the time. So who I am not like scared to piss people off. think like we are way too sensitive, honestly.

Rhona Pierce (00:12)
That's Hebba Youssef, the chief people officer at Workweek and the creator of I Hate It Here, one of the most read, reshared, and brutally honest newsletters in HR.

Hebba Youssef (00:22)
There are so many people that I think I've written in and said they feel seen or they felt really lonely or felt like they couldn't be themselves in HR before they started reading my content. I don't even know how to put that into words, the fact that people feel like I made them more comfortable. That's it, done my job.

Rhona Pierce (00:38)
In this conversation, she opens up about the creative process behind her newsletters.

Hebba Youssef (00:43)
But sometimes I do an entire newsletter of just Buffy the Vampire Slayer gifts because I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Rhona Pierce (00:48)
I really enjoyed the Bridgeton era of I hate it here newsletter. What it's really like being both the CPO and a monetized creator inside the same company.

Hebba Youssef (00:59)
Again, I have so much privilege because I have a CEO who lets me say what I want to say, who even when we disagree on stuff, I'm like, can I talk about us disagreeing on it? He's like, go for it.

Rhona Pierce (01:09)
being outspoken is always worth it, even when it's uncomfortable.

Hebba Youssef (01:13)
This job is hard. Like I am a CPO by day. I leave this call, I go to business calls. I have a standing weekly meeting with the founders of the company I work. I'm dealing with managers. We're at a rapid growth, paced startup. How do I handle all that? A lot of the times I'm doing this work. And so like the newsletter just feels like a labor of love and like therapy most.

Rhona Pierce (01:30)
And just when you think it couldn't get more honest, I hit her with Plead the Fifth. Three spicy questions and one confession that had us both laughing or maybe just cackling a little. I rarely do it. This is Workfluencer. Let's get into it. I'm so excited to have you today on the pod. Thank you so much for joining.

Hebba Youssef (01:36)
I'm kind of scared.

I always give people that advice at night.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Rhona Pierce (01:56)
So, ⁓ we're going to talk about all things newsletter and memes today. You've got really one of the most subscribed to newsletters in HR and probably the most shared. What's something about, hate it here that people don't realize until they've been reading it for a while.

Hebba Youssef (02:14)
Mm, that I will sneak in so many pop culture references. It's honestly, people are always like, it feels like you're talking to me, like when I read the newsletter. And every time I'm like, I'm actually just talking to myself. Like most of the time when I'm writing the newsletter, I like mumble, I'm like asking myself questions. And then I'm like giggling. Like I make myself laugh probably more than a normal person should, because I'm like laughing myself as I'm writing it. And so

I think the thing that people don't realize a lot of times is I'm writing very much also for like the moment I'm in and trying to even give myself advice through the writing. It's like very therapeutic.

Rhona Pierce (02:54)
I love it. And yeah, as someone who knows you, I totally get that feel. Like reading your newsletter is the same as like talking to you. It really is.

Hebba Youssef (03:03)
So, so sorry.

Rhona Pierce (03:06)
So how do you choose what to write about each week?

Hebba Youssef (03:10)
⁓ this is such a good question. In the beginning, I was like, I'm going to write about whatever I want this week. Like every week I'm going to like wake up on Sundays because I send on Monday. So usually I start writing on Sundays, which means I've been working like six days a week for the last three years. Someday I will not write on a Sunday, but until then, I used to wake up on Sundays and just like pick a random thought I had. And then as I started getting more into content creation, I was like this chaos. love chaos to be clear. I've done four startups. It's like my bread and butter.

but it's really stressful when you're trying to be creative in the chaos sometimes. And I was like, I can't do this. I have to like have thematic writing. So then I started mapping out every quarter with a theme. And then when I would have a theme that I knew I was sending 12 newsletters on said theme, how could I actually break it down week over week and build upon each other? So it feels like you're reading a continuous story and you're not just reading like random things I decided to write this week.

So now every quarter, before a quarter starts, I like think of a theme. Like my Q1 in 2025 was inspired by Lauryn Hill and the miseducation of Lauryn Hill. And I thought there's a miseducation problem in HR. And so I made the whole entire quarter about the role of HR, what people get wrong, what are popular profile types for HR people, what to do when something really isn't your job, like all these things that really impact HR's role. And like this next quarter, inspired by Cyndi Lauper, girls just wanna have fun.

I'm writing about employees just want blank. So I'm always thinking of like an overarching theme and then trying to connect the stories I'm writing about week to week to that theme.

Rhona Pierce (04:44)
If you've made it this far into the episode and you're not subscribed yet, now's a good time. I love it. And you get really real in your newsletter. Like, what's your filter for deciding like, okay, this is going in versus this one stays in the group chat.

Hebba Youssef (05:02)
That's so funny. Sometimes my CEO will text me and be like, is this about me? Did you write this about me? And every time I'm like, it is not about you, sir. Like, it rarely is about him. And when it is about him, he knows. Like I tell him, like, I might talk about this thing in the newsletter. He's like, cool. I don't care. What goes in the newsletter? Like nothing about work week employees, like my current employer, whatever end up in the newsletter. That's just like not my vibe. It's inappropriate. It's not confidential. Like I also have to, I'm a chief people officer, so I have to like maintain

a certain level of discretion when I'm also writing. And it's like, that's one filter where I'm like, I never put anything that's at all confidential to my current company in the newsletter. That's just a non-negotiable for me. It's also like no one's business. ⁓ The second part is like, I feel like I can talk about most things though, which is really nice. And then the filter is like, is this going to do more harm or good out in the world is something I'm constantly thinking about. And most of the time I land on, I think it'll do good for people to hear this different perspective.

and then I try to go through there. But when it comes to like specific people, that definitely stays in the group chat.

Rhona Pierce (06:05)
Yeah, I mean, that's such a good thing because I think it can happen to all of us in the space. Like we get so much content. If you work in TA or in HR, content is every like your every day could be content, but you have to have like that filter of like you're still an HR professional, right? You can't like there's still ethics and confidentiality and you still need the trust of the people in your organization. So if you're always blabbing about stuff online or in your newsletter,

You're not going to be very successful chief people officer.

Hebba Youssef (06:40)
Yeah, even then when I meet like other content creators out in the world if they like inspire a post I usually try to tell them hey you inspired this I'm gonna tag you in it or I'm gonna mention you like sometimes I'll be like my friend does X Y & Z and I'll stick them in the newsletter and I think the second piece of it is like Yeah, we have to have discretion but I feel like that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to like be ourselves too And that's where I think a lot of people are like, HR can't talk about politics ooh HR can't say X Y & Z and I really want to be here to be like

we can talk about those things if we do them in a way with respect and reason most of the time. I'm not out here saying outrageous things. I'm just kind of saying the things that need to be said that a lot of people are afraid to say or can't say.

Rhona Pierce (07:21)
Yes, yes, 100%. It's so important because it's true. And I've seen the evolution of content, like HR content creators. One of the reasons why I started this podcast, right? But I've seen it. Back, let's say, six, seven years ago, everyone was posting the, like, vanilla, this is me, I'm the HR lady. And now it's like, no, this is not real. We can all see through it. So that's why the...

The creators like you and so many others in our space are like really making an impact and shining through because you're saying what needs to be said. You're still being respectful, but you're saying what needs to be said, like put in the human back in HR to be that cliche person.

Hebba Youssef (08:07)
I really don't like when people are like, we shouldn't fight with each other on LinkedIn. And I'm like, honestly, we kind of should fight with each other on LinkedIn. It doesn't mean we have to disrespectfully fight. Like, I'm never going to come for you based on your identity or what you look like. I'm going to come for you on the idea. And I'm going to say, hey, thank you so much for sharing. I actually disagree. I literally told someone the other day, I find your argument to be reductive, and here's why. And I just like said it. And I think the other weird part about being a content creator in this space is like, I hate the people that

and are like, we should be positive. We don't have to fight with each other. And it's like, real change, real change does not happen without conflict. And that means like, we are going to disagree. There are a few things that all of us are gonna 100 % agree on. And I actually think we've done a lot of harm to our industry and like ourselves by not having these conversations, by not saying, hey, I disagree or hey, maybe re-examine that take because it's rooted in privilege.

women and people of color, underrepresented groups or neurodiverse people, are those the disabilities, they don't get some of the luxuries that a lot of other people in the world do. And sometimes we give more credit and credence to those voices than other voices. And I think that's what keeps me going every day in content creation too.

Rhona Pierce (09:22)
Yeah, that is so, so good. ⁓ And it's so needed. It's what we need. A lot of the... It's funny, I'm thinking back, some of the guests that I've had on this podcast have been... We've started our relationship by disagreeing online, but once you do it respectfully... Yeah, I just had Mike Perito. think our very first interaction was...

him disagreeing with me because I said a very bold thing about like most of the HR and TA creators out there are writing self-serving advice and it's not to help job seekers and I remember him and a bunch of other people were like that's not true blah blah but then when we talked it out now they're all my friends so it's it's it's very interesting.

Hebba Youssef (10:06)
There's like we should disagree like disagreement is good conflict is good. It's healthy What's not good is dismissing people's opinions is trying to cut them down by attacking Things out of their control the way they look the beliefs they like I'm not about that But I'm about if your idea and I if I you have an idea and I don't agree with it I'm gonna tell you why I don't agree with it and I'm at the same time I'm also gonna be receptive to me here and I'm wrong. I Love when people come in my comments are like, I think you're wrong. And here's why

And I'm like, ooh, tell me more. Help me understand. Show me my blind spots because I don't know everything. You don't know everything. So like naturally you're gonna say something that someone disagrees with.

Rhona Pierce (10:45)
Yeah, so great that we're in this era of content creation this way in HR. I know it translates back to how we are inside of our organizations as well. Because I mean, if you're real online, you're definitely real in real life.

Hebba Youssef (11:03)
My poor, the employees at Workweek are like, we know she can't lie. We know, like, we just look down look at her. We know, like, she's gonna tell it like it is if she can. There are certain lines you can never cross, right? Again, to the confidentiality, we've all worked in HR or DA, like, we know there are certain lines we can't cross. Within reason, though, I'm gonna shoot you straight. I can't. I'm a terrible liar. My mother knows it, my family knows it, my best friends know it. It's not for me.

Rhona Pierce (11:31)
Not for you. All right. So going back a little to the newsletter, when you started it, did you ever think it was going to get this big?

Hebba Youssef (11:38)
No.

No. In fact, I think I said when they asked me to write the newsletter, I think my exact words are, who cares what I think? And they were like, oh, we think a lot of people would. No, I didn't. just honestly, like a lot of the times, you know, this is so cheesy. I'm just like writing from the heart. I'm like, this job is hard. Like I am a CPO by day. I leave this call. I go to business calls. I have a standing weekly meeting with the founders of the company I work with. Like I'm dealing with managers. We're at a rapid growth fast-paced startup, how do I handle all that? A lot of the times I'm doing this work and so the newsletter just feels like a labor of love and therapy most weeks. And the fact that it resonates with so many people, I'm telling you, and people reply or send me DMs, I always reply with something very similar, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. Because that's what keeps me going, is people saying this content is actively helping me. Somebody was like, I feel like you're my ghost manager. Every week it's a one-on-one with you.

I was like, feel so much honor and like so much gratitude for the fact that people even care what I think.

Rhona Pierce (12:49)
amazing. Do you ever feel pressure to like keep topping yourself as it grows or are you able to just like stay in the vibe?

Hebba Youssef (12:56)
That's so good. don't keep topping myself. I'm always like, how can I talk about this new thing? At the very beginning, was like, holy shit, am I going to run out of topics? I truly was like, am I going to run it? And then I was like, no, because every day in HR is a new fresh hell. have something to write about. I do the job. So I do feel some pressure sometimes to continue to level up and deliver really good content. I never want someone to walk away from a newsletter and be like, ugh, that just missed the mark for me.

So I feel pressure in that regard where I'm like, I want to make sure there's always a takeaway so that if you read it, it's time well spent. You're not wasting time by skimming chat GPT churned out con.

Rhona Pierce (13:39)
Yes, so, so important and such a great way to stand out now. Like literally the bar keeps getting lower and lower as AI keeps getting smarter and smarter because people are just like using it. But let's talk a little about AI because it does exist. How do you use it in your creative process?

Hebba Youssef (14:00)
my God, use it to, at the very beginning, I think I told you this, I used to argue with AI every day. Like every day I'd be like, I'm gonna ask it a question. Like how would HR do this? And then I start arguing with it. And all of my friends were like, you are training the AI. Like they were like, this is cute that you think you're arguing with something, you are training it. And I was like, huh. So now when I do use it, I'll ask it a question, like how would I solve this? What would HR do for that? And I look at what it says back to me.

And then I like filter that through my actual lived experience. I'm like, I would never suggest that or that will never work. And here's why. And so from the creative process, I feel like it really gets me thinking about very unique ideas and experiences that not the average person is having. And that's what I think also makes the content even more relatable. Cause people are like, she's not just out of the box suggesting do a weekly standup with your C-suite.

She's like actually talking about how do I show up at that stand up, give them the right things to say, and then get the idea across the line. So I think like it's always a part of my creative process, mostly at the very beginning when I'm ideating and trying to understand like what's the common belief about something versus what's my belief and where do I stand.

Rhona Pierce (15:14)
What does that ideation process look like? All right, you've got the theme for the quarter. You've argued with Chad GPT and got your angle and your POV. What happens next?

Hebba Youssef (15:30)
I draft in a Google doc and usually I draft sections out first. Like it's always a headline and then all my sections, cause that will guide my thinking for what I'm gonna actually write. I structure it in that way. And then this is really funny. Before I write a single word, I actually pick all my GIFs. I pick every GIF to go into every section. And then once I've picked the GIF, I'm like, now it's time to write. And I usually write, rarely do I end up moving sections around. Sometimes I end up cutting sections.

But I almost always take a topic, break it into what my sections are going to be. I always follow a similar, what's the problem? Why am I talking about this? How do you solve it? What does HR need to know? Sometimes I change it into, why is this the problem? Sometimes I dedicate entire sentence to just a problem in HR and why we experience it. And then I just try to break it down through the body into really tactical, tangible next steps. Because you could spiral for hours.

Performance management can spawn like 80 topics. So then I'm like, it's performance management. I'm specifically talking about feedback given by managers. What is the most important things people need to know about feedback given by managers? Well, managers aren't good at it. It's usually flawed and no one knows how to deliver it. There's my body. I, this is like what I'm talking about out loud is like, I this like every week with myself. I'll like sit for like 10 minutes and just talk to myself through a topic and then I'll start writing.

Rhona Pierce (16:55)
That's so amazing. It's so interesting that you choose your gift first because I like, I love, I'm like, you are literally the queen of the memes and your newsletter. And I think a lot of us also, I use memes in my newsletter as well, but I've always used them at the end. And probably that's why it's so hard because now I have to find something. So talk me through that process. how do you come up with.

The ones like how long does it take you to choose like, okay, this is the meme. This is the gift that's going to go.

Hebba Youssef (17:27)
The GIFs usually, sometimes it's just a moment from pop culture. So I guess you should know this about me. I'm like a pop culture fanatic. I live and breathe movies, television, music, books, which I think there's probably like one more angle to pop culture, but I like love eighties movies. love nineties rom-coms. I love 2000, early 2000s movies. Like I have this like deep repository in my brain to like pull a random image from a show out. And then I just go into Google and Google that show and that scene and ask for the GIF.

And then I save it and I put in the newsletter. Sometimes I theme the gifts. I think people really like that too. Like sometimes I do an entire newsletter of just Buffy the Vampire Slayer gifts, because I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Like it's all really just like what I like. I'm thinking less often. This is really sad and I care about all of you who are listening and reading. I actually think less often about the person who's receiving the gift and more of my preference for the gift itself.

Rhona Pierce (18:23)
Interesting.

Hebba Youssef (18:25)
These are ⁓

Rhona Pierce (18:27)
I really enjoyed the Bridgeton era of, I hate to hear newsletter. was like, is, Hibba is living and we are all along for the ride and I love it.

Hebba Youssef (18:40)
I was lady whistle-downing myself every day. I was having such a good time. I love Bridgerton. love Shonda Rhimes. It's very much everything at the center of the brand or things that I genuinely content I'm actually consuming. This newsletter on Friday had a meme from White Lotus. I've been obsessed with White Lotus. So I'll just go find them. I make all my memes in Figma too, which is just a nerdy thing that we started at. Figma. For a while, it was really hard for me to figure out how to use, but now I know.

⁓ But I make all my memes in there and then I'll play with like different captions and I'll do multiple options and now I share the multiple memes I make in safe space so people can see my creative process isn't I just make one meme. Usually I make three to four and then I pick the one that I think will perform the best and like make people laugh the hardest.

Rhona Pierce (19:24)
Yeah, that's totally because I'm a safe spacer. So that's totally one of the posts that I look forward to. And it's always really fun to see all the options and then which one ended up in the newsletter on LinkedIn. It's very fun.

Hebba Youssef (19:40)
good

time. just like, we, the thing I wish people thought more about work, because we're like in a really weird time with like the job market layoffs are the highest they've ever been. I just think we've been going through it the last few years. I have so much empathy for everyone struggling through these times. But the one thing too, that I really wish is that we just had more fun at work. The world is like so sad right now, for a lot of reasons. And I'm like, if I can deliver joy in your inbox,

and it's not regurgitated chat GPT content. And it's like an original angle of something you deeply relate to. And it makes you smile. I have won the game for the day. That's it.

Rhona Pierce (20:16)
When you're creating these memes and these gifs, have you ever posted one and thought like, okay, this might piss someone off, but it's totally worth

Hebba Youssef (20:25)
Yeah, all the time.

time. So who I'm not like scared to piss people off. think like, we are way too sensitive. Honestly, like we should, we should be challenging each other. We should be pushing each other again back to that respect piece as long as we're doing respectfully who cares. Always I'm going to make a meme that someone's going to be like, HR is not your friend. HR is actually the evil people in the organization. And I'm always like, I'm actually not that evil. Like you should get to know me.

Rhona Pierce (20:56)
Really nice.

Hebba Youssef (20:58)
Trying

to be like I'm trying to be a good person. Like I'm sure there are people and employees I have pissed off along the way. But like I it's not my intention. I'm not malicious about it. It's like sometimes the business needs something that you can't provide and I have to make a decision. And we all, by the way, like no business leader is your friend. Engineering is not your friend. Accounting is not your friend. Legal is not your friend. No one is your friend at work. We are all beholden to the business making money. So

Every now and then I'll post a meme and someone's like, well, HR is the evil one actually. Like they're never mature. And I'm like, all right, get out of here. Yeah.

Rhona Pierce (21:34)
Exactly. So you're the CPO and you're a creator at work week, right? And work week is a media company that literally exists like to help creators monetize and for creators, right? So what's it like living on both sides of the business?

Hebba Youssef (21:49)
Horrendous. kidding. It's the joy of my life and the bane of my existence because I get to play the role. Then I also get to help the company then enable that role too. So I think it's always really fun. Honestly, there are challenging moments where I really have to say, hey, I need to put my operator hat on. So we always call everyone at the company, operator or creator. And operators, like anyone operationalizing the business, the creators are the creators.

And so sometimes I even say when I'm like talking to my CEO, I'm like, Hey, I have to put creator hat on. Like, can I talk to you as a creator versus like when I go to him with like a very real, most of the time I'm going to him with very real operator things. It's rarely I go directly to my CEO for anything as a creator. I have like a team that supports me. we always joke like there's creator Hibba and operator Hibba. And it is tough like to say that I don't have bias when like you're doing the job.

but I'm always really careful in executive meetings when we're talking about executive things and decisions. I'm never there showing up as creator me. Like I truly try to put up a wall and think as an operator in this business, as the CPO in this role, how do I show up to this call? And then the feedback I give is directly related to that. When they do, when we're on an executive call and they need like a creator opinion, they'll say, okay, pause, can we get it like creator hippie here for a second?

And I try to like switch in and switch out. And like the context shifting is hard, but I feel like over the last three years, I've done a really good job of like putting up that wall and being like, I'm also here for, a business sense to like solve a business problem. Is it perfect? I don't know. I don't think it'll ever be perfect. Honestly, it's a flawed model, but we don't do it anymore. That's why.

Rhona Pierce (23:32)
Yeah, but it's so good that you're able to do it because yeah, it's important you you like in those meetings they want CPO. Yeah.

Hebba Youssef (23:42)
I'm not there to advocate for myself and my wants and needs. Like, first of all, that's selfish. Yeah. I need to show up and be like, well, actually, as a creator, wouldn't it be great if we did this? I'm like, no, I'm here as our CPO. How are we staffing this? What is the impact? What's the comms plan? What's the change matrix? Like, that's where I'm trying to like really be in that mode. And then when I can iterate and be creative and fully show up as a creator, those are different meetings that I'm allowed to do that in.

Rhona Pierce (24:07)
Amazing. So has being a creator like changed how you lead as a CPO or like how others in the organization relate to you?

Hebba Youssef (24:17)
That's such an interesting question. When we were at Transform, a lot of people came up to me and were like, I feel like I have a parasocial relationship with you, which I just learned that word like three months ago. So I was like, oh, okay. Sometimes I think for the employees, because they read the newsletter, like a lot of them do read the newsletter, they actually get to know me better, which I think is interesting from the component of trust. It's like if they don't get FaceTime and visibility with me every day.

but open up that newsletter and hear how I'm thinking about something. Does that potentially make our relationship stronger? Because they trust me. They see how I'm thinking about things. It's very vulnerable. It's on display. I talk about my grief, my heartache, how I navigate things, the struggles of being HR, how thankless this job is. So I do feel like to a certain extent, it's enabled the employees to get to know me better and honestly trust that I'm trying to show up.

How I show up in the newsletters, how I show up at work, and how I show up in person. I really don't feel like there's a difference. You meet me on the internet, you meet me in person, I'm almost always the same person.

Rhona Pierce (25:23)
Yeah, yeah, you really are.

Hebba Youssef (25:25)
It's just like, what am I gonna lie about? Listen, I have such low energy for that. I'm like, life is too precious and like too rare for you to not show up every day the way you wanna show up. And I feel really privileged that I get to do that at work week. That I get to be like my chaos queen on display. Like sometimes I'll be chaotic in a Slack and be like, Or I'll like Slack a link and be like, look at this crazy HR shit. And I get to like be myself.

In an environment, lot of times where HR is not allowed to be themselves.

Rhona Pierce (25:58)
that is so, so good. I'm so happy that you get to have that environment. And that, yeah, like people always, when I speak to people about personal branding and just creating content, they're always afraid of what's going to happen internally. And yes, there's definitely people who've had bad experiences. I myself have had bad experiences where others in their organization aren't that happy that

my content gets more traction than theirs or things like that. But most of the results or the consequences of creating content have always been building trust with the people that you work with because they get to see a side of you that they maybe don't see at work. Like you're making decisions, you're doing this, but when they understand you, because they're like, they watch my videos or things like that, then they're like, ⁓ wait, she's actually

a human. people would ask me, I remember one time I was delivering some bad news to the team and they're like, they forced you to say this, right?

Hebba Youssef (27:08)
Yeah, actually.

Rhona Pierce (27:10)
I was like, is this a blink twice situation? It's like, I can't say yes, but I was there. But it's because they knew everything I stood for, for seeing it online, that they absolutely knew that I was a hundred, like literally I memorized what I was going to say. Cause I, that was so against what I would do. It wasn't bad. It wasn't illegal. It wasn't immoral. It's just not what I would do. So when I said it, people were like, they forced you to say that, right?

Hebba Youssef (27:38)
I've also gotten that too.

Rhona Pierce (27:41)
See, it helps. helps. So you've really built this voice that's trusted and like honest. And like you said, people see you and they're like, oh, we feel like we know you and stuff like that. Like what's been the hardest part of maintaining that tone as your audience grows?

Hebba Youssef (28:01)
I want so deeply to give everyone one-on-one attention and I feel really bad that I can't. I think like that's been the hardest part because some people will write me really thoughtful messages and I'll be like, my LinkedIn inbox is the seventh layer of hell. My actual email inbox is also terrible. Everyone knows now to get in touch with me, you have to text me. And as my Helli, likes to joke, I will respond in three hours or three business days.

It just depends on who you're in. I'm trying really hard to be better at it, but it's like, want to give everyone my attention and I kind of have to realize like, I can't do that, but it's still, it's like hard because there are so many people that I think I've written in and said they feel seen or they felt really lonely or felt like they couldn't be themselves in HR before they like started reading my content. And that like, I don't even know how to like put that into words, like what that means to me. The fact that like people feel

like I made them more comfortable is like I have, that's it. Like I've also like done my job. My job is like foster and create like places where everyone feels like they belong. And I think it's really interesting because when I started content creating, I think I told you the story maybe another time, but I, when they asked me like, do you want to be a content creator? And I was like, well, here's the content creation world in HR at the time, like three ish years ago. I was like, there are white men who have never really done the job who either

have just built something for themselves after never doing it or haven't done it recently. Not having done HR during COVID is very different. And I said, there are these white men, white men are given respect and authority over everyone else. And then I said, and I see women and people of color most often writing about one-off topics or focusing on DEI. I don't see many women creators in HR that are writing about everything.

And I think it's because they're not given the authority or the respect that these other people have. And I was like, but I'm doing this job. And I'm also younger. I don't think I'm the youngest person doing HR. But I'm younger. So I think people are like, what does she have? And I'm like, well, I've done four startups. I've doubled some of them. I've done three rapid growth ones. I've been through multiple rounds of funding. I've seen a lot of shit that I think a lot of other people also feel. And the real part about HR that I feel like was really hurting us in the past

was that people did have like these like guards or displays up on like, have to be prim and proper all the time. And I'm like, no, I don't. I say, F you, F this, F that. Like I say all those things on any given day. Like it doesn't mean I can't be a real person and do HR. And so I think like all of that combined with like people wanting to meet me as the brand grows, I think has just been like the most challenging thing. Cause I see the impact I'm having on their lives.

and I want so desperately to like give them all my attention, but like there's limited hours in the day.

Rhona Pierce (30:49)
Yeah. If someone listening is thinking like, I want to say more, but I'm scared of the backlash, what advice would you give them?

Hebba Youssef (30:59)
Think about your employer. So like what it what it if what you want to say more about could hurt your employment I would say filter through that lens because we're at a state of the world where I mean I couldn't be unemployed right now right like people you need to be able to live your life and pay for things and the world is getting increasingly expensive so if This puts if what you want to say puts you at risk of losing your job. That's a decision you need to make That's a personal decision again. I have so much privilege because I have a CEO

who lets me say what I wanna say, who even when we disagree on stuff, I'm like, can I talk about us disagreeing on it? He's like, go for it. So like I have that privilege. I wanna say that like very clearly, not everyone does. So if you're able to post and it not impact your continued employment, I would say you should say the thing you're thinking. You should say it. There should be more content out there. First of all, I can scroll through LinkedIn and tell you what is AI content and what isn't at this point in the world.

If you are having an original thought and you want to put it out there, put it out there, please.

Rhona Pierce (32:02)
please.

Hebba Youssef (32:03)
We all need it. Yeah, almost is going to harm somebody and then, you know, I'm not down with that. ⁓

Rhona Pierce (32:09)
So what's what something that you wish more HR leaders would admit out loud?

Hebba Youssef (32:16)
⁓ this job sucks sometimes. I we do actually hate it here. So it's so funny because when I launched, hated here. People were like, that's such a negative name. And I was like, actually, if you know me and I'm a very positive person and also hate is not a bad emotion. I'm here to de-stigmatize it. Hate means you dislike something enough potentially to try to go make a change. Yes. And I hate a lot of things about the way we do HR.

because they are rooted in systems that do not support most of the employees. They are rooted in systems that were built by people who wrote philosophical papers on how to do it. And then we as HR were forced to enact it. And not everybody, there's a lot ⁓ of brilliant, amazing HR leaders out there that are like, absolutely not. I do not ascribe to that and I'm gonna build something better. Go you, whoever you are, slide into my DMs, I will try to answer them because.

I want more of you in my life, essentially. And so I think the thing though about HR is like, yeah, we do really hate it here sometimes. Our jobs, I've said this a lot, maybe I'll get hate for it this time again, I feel like we have one of the most impossible jobs at an organization. We're beholden to what the business wants, but then held responsible for how the employees react to that. Yes. And those two oftentimes,

and bad organizations are in conflict with one another. At great organizations, they're aligned. It's really hard to build a great organization. You are dealing with humans. You're dealing with the most complicated variable in the world, humans.

Rhona Pierce (33:56)
We're so grateful for people like you that actually speak out and have these thoughts and think this way. ⁓ We need more of that in our space. So if I hate it here, only did one thing for readers, what do you hope that is?

Hebba Youssef (34:13)
give them a tactical takeaway. I always try to put one in there because I want someone to read it and try something new the next day. I'm trying to solve your problem. So as much as I can give you advice on how to solve it, I'm gonna give you three different ways to do something. And I'm gonna say, go do that. Because we need help. The other thing is like not, HR is not the same everywhere.

So we all have different organizations. We have different leaders. Everyone is a different, again, humans with all of our perspective and our lived experience are different. And so what works for one organization might not work for another. So I always try to account for that when I'm giving like suggestions on what to do and then link to more resources. Like if they really wanna go deep on this one thing I'm suggesting, here's another resource they can read.

Rhona Pierce (34:59)
Amazing, amazing. So this has been an amazing conversation. But before we wrap, it's time for everyone's, well, mostly my favorite segment, it's called Plea to the Fifth. Okay. And technically, this isn't your first time in the workfluencer courtroom. You were brave enough to play Plea to the Fifth at Transform. But now you're in the hot seat. And I've got a few questions I didn't get to ask you then. Same deal. You can answer honestly or Plea to the Fifth.

But only to one question, and either way, the internet is absolutely going to judge you. Are you ready?

Hebba Youssef (35:34)
So ready. It's kind of scared.

Rhona Pierce (35:37)
kind of scared. All right. So have you ever made a meme about someone and they didn't know it was about them?

Hebba Youssef (35:45)
Yes.

Rhona Pierce (35:48)
⁓ right. What's a piece of standard HR advice that you've given that you don't actually follow yourself?

Hebba Youssef (35:56)
block your calendar.

I always give people that advice and I rarely do it. But I currently have, okay, to be fair, I currently have Wednesdays and Fridays mostly blocked off, but I meant like in general, like time boxing your calendar to like do work. I don't do that, but I suggest it often.

Rhona Pierce (36:16)
That's a great idea. So last question, who in the HR slash workplace content space do you secretly think is completely full of it?

Hebba Youssef (36:28)
You

Do I answer this or plead the...

Well, I answered the other two, so I'm fully able to plead the fifth on this one. I'm going to play the fifth, Rona. I'm not going to that negative energy out there. I'll keep it for the group chat. was kidding. just, there are, I will, how about this? I can plead the fifth halfway and just say there are a lot of people out there who are full of shit. And the first thing I will tell you to do is go look up their background. Sorry. And if they have not worked in HR, but claim they are an HR influencer, if they

have not held an HR leadership type role, either like a manager, a director, even a VP, a CPO, any sort of management role, the responsibilities in HR, I would also say be careful on trusting what they say. And honestly, anyone can say that they're an expert in something and actually have no experience whatsoever. And I would just filter, not saying you have to go hate them or unfollow them, just filter their advice through that lens and know that there are people out there who do this work day to day that might have less followers, but are

doing the work.

Rhona Pierce (37:36)
Great advice. So thank you so much for bringing the honesty, the real talk. I wouldn't expect the last of you. was not expecting less. Your newsletter might be called. hate it here, but I absolutely loved this conversation. Every conversation I have with you. ⁓ So before we wrap for anyone who isn't already subscribed, following or lurking, what's the best way for people to keep up with everything that you're doing?

Hebba Youssef (38:01)
definitely LinkedIn, hit that little bell in the corner, you can follow me. post almost every day, sometimes multiple times a day, and I'm always resharing really cool things I'm seeing there. So it's like a great way to find other people to follow, not just me. And then you can actually Google, I hate it here, and it's pretty much me. come up, Taylor Swift also comes up, we're working on it. Taylor Swift and I are gonna have to have a heart to heart. If you're listening, Taylor, let's talk. But it's me and her, like it's her song, and then it's the website, I have a podcast, the newsletter.

And I have a community called Safe Space. If you're an HR leader and you're really looking for support, ⁓ please join the community. We would look for people who have like a minimum of five years of experience working in HR. There's a free membership tier and a paid membership tier, both unlock many things. And I would love to have you there. We're planning events in every city and we're going to be around the world everywhere soon.

Rhona Pierce (38:52)
amazing. And as a safe space or I can say it's one of the best communities out there. I love everyone in there. It's there's so much the group chat is in there and safe space. So if you're in HR, you want to be in safe space. And I'll link all of your the links to the newsletter to your LinkedIn everything. Thanks again so much for being on the pod.

Hebba Youssef (39:14)
You're the best. This was the most fun I've had on a podcast ever.

Rhona Pierce (39:18)
Amazing. All right. Whether you're leading a team, writing a newsletter, or just trying to survive your next all hands, Hebba reminds us that honesty scales and so does trust. If you're not already subscribed to I Hate It Here, go fix that. You'll laugh, you'll nod in painful agreement, and you'll probably forward it to a HR bestie who needs to read it. The link is in the show notes. Big thanks to Hebba for sharing her brain and her behind the scenes process with us.

I've got more episodes coming your way soon with creators, operators, and people who aren't afraid to say the quiet part out loud. Hit subscribe so you don't miss it. Workfluencer is produced by Perceptible Studios. Learn more about how we can help you use video to attract, engage, and retain qualified talent at perceptiblestudios.com. If you're enjoying the Workfluencer pod, share it with someone who's changing how we talk about work or who should be.

And hey, if this episode gave you ideas or inspiration, leave us a five-star review. Reviews help other listeners find us, and frankly, they make my day. Thanks for listening, and I'll chat with you next week.